romavillan Posted February 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2014 Clough > Ferguson At least in terms of european success, if Clough hadn't been such a total lunatic and had a run at a top club for two decades who knows what he might have built. Retaining the European Cup is about as top an honour as they come, and it eluded Ferguson. As for todays Utd in teh champs league. Using Giggs in a Pirlo sort of role I think woudl work a lot better in europe than in the prem. Who knows, but to me they look light years away from where the best in europe are now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Fergie has three major European trophies with Manchester United and one with Aberdeen so he achieved more than Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Clough was a manager during the European ban for English clubs. That 8? year period was in the heart of his time as manager. Also he was not the manager of the biggest and best club in England. Edited February 25, 2014 by Voinjama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 plus was tougher to get into European Cup these days when now you can finish 4th to get in not that United needed that option much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Even if Ferguson came back tomorrow, they have no chance to beat the likes of Bayern, Barca, Madrid, etc. Pipe dream. well Ferguson was shocking in Europe, 2 wins in 20 years really is a poor record and was rarely brought up. United look more comfortable in group stage than a Fergie team has in a while He won two Champions League-trophies and his record is shocking? I mean, shocking like pathetic and not even close to being even average? That's a pretty ludicrous statement if you ask me, the tournament involves a lot of luck and fortune in the end, it could have been more and it could have been less. Fergie built a team and first won the league in 1992/93. They entered the CL and since then Real Madrid have three victories, AC Milan have three, Bayern München have two, Liverpool have one, Barcelona for all their dominance have three, Internazionale have one, Juventus have one, Porto have one and so on. NO team can dominate in terms of winning, the tournament involves so many good teams over time and then you factor in injuries, lucky decisions in one single game, fatigue on one single day and numerous other factors. The best team doesn't always win, like we saw with Chelsea two years ago and certainly with Liverpool back in 2005 when they were hammered only for AC Milan to celebrate the victory at half-time. United won one cup in the 90th and 92nd minute and the other one on penalties, but they are still the winner those years. To say Fergie's record is shocking in the Champions League is so naive when you look at the teams that actually win, it's on par with most other teams and you can factor in that they always competed for the top spot in a highly competitive league unlike Spain, Germany and often Italy. Liverpool won the competition back in 2005 and they finished 5th in the league, that takes away a lot of "champion" for me. But hey, that's the rules. If Fergie's record is shocking, you kind of bring all the other teams and all the other managers into that description. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Compare Fergie's record with Guardiola's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Just backed Yanited to win tonight. That should **** them up nicely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Clough was a manager during the European ban for English clubs. That 8? year period was in the heart of his time as manager. Also he was not the manager of the biggest and best club in England. So was Ferguson and neither was Ferguson. It's easy to forget now, but Manchester United were sleeping giants when Fergie took the job, Liverpool were dominating European football in a way only Barcelona's post 2006 have been able to match and Everton, Arsenal & Spurs all had much better teams. To claim Ferguson was poor in Europe is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I never said he was poor in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I was addressing the wider point, some people (Zatman) seem to think he was. Two big cups and two cup winners cups suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 i think people are underestimating how long they stayed on top for and how hard that is fergie saw out englands once biggest club for 20+ years, blackburn's money, wenger's revolution at arsenal, chelsea's money, and at the end citys money, yeah he did it with probably the greatest crop of players ever to come through at once and their own share of wealth but he still did it (and by a dodgy ref awarding 8mins extra time...) agree with papillon, in europe he's seen milan, ajax and barca teams that dont look out of place on "best team ever" lists, the galactico era at madrid, long periods when serie A and la liga were better leagues than the prem and yet they are "challengers" probably 8/10 seasons? they've played more CL finals than madrid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 When United got back into the Champions League in the 90's it was really difficult for English clubs as they had to play catch up with other teams as no English team had been in Europe for years due to the Heysel ban. Winning the European cup winners cup against Barcelona in 91 was a remarkable achievement given the strengths of the clubs at the point in time. Barcelona would go on to win the European Cup the following season while United were mid table in division 1 in 91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Goooooooaaqqllll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 losing 2-0 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Villa would have done better away at Olympiakos than this Utd team. Really terrible team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Just backed Yanited to win tonight. That should **** them up nicely Get some money on Norwich this weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I really hope Ferdinand is playing when we go to Old Trafford. Absolute liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Villa would have done better away at Olympiakos than this Utd team. Really terrible team. You've not seen us play recently have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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