Davkaus Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: The only people who believe Agile/scrum so called methodologies, are usually the people who implement them. Yes and no. If you do some modern "scrum" bullshit driven by some external training company, it's bollocks. Agile done right is just a good way of working, particularly in software development where it originated. I suspect fewer than 5% of companies that pat themselves on the back about being agile actually are. A truly agile mindset from an engineering team is a terrifying prospect to the average management team. If anyone is interested, this is what agile actually is. Not stand ups and sprints. It's not a prescribed methodology or framework, it's a set of guiding principles https://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html It's just about seeking frequent feedback, continuous interactions, collaboration, sustainability and empowering workers rather than micromanaging them with a roadmap. Most of it, when you read it, just sounds like common sense hardly worth writing down, and then you remember how **** mangled it has become by business types, and realise more people probably need to read about what they're pretending to believe in. True agile probably need a reboot and rebranding after how much its name has been dragged through the mud by people who've been on a 3 day course. People trying to embrace it in non-software development businesses surprise me and I'm not so surprised it's unpopular. Edited June 28, 2023 by Davkaus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Yes and no. If you do some modern "scrum" bullshit driven by some external training company, it's bollocks. Agile done right is just a good way of working, particularly in software development where it originated. I suspect fewer than 5% of companies that pat themselves on the back about being agile actually are. A truly agile mindset from an engineering team is a terrifying prospect to the average management team. If anyone is interested, this is what agile actually is. Not stand ups and sprints. It's not a prescribed methodology or framework, it's a set of guiding principles https://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html It's just about seeking frequent feedback, continuous interactions, collaboration, sustainability and empowering workers rather than micromanaging them with a roadmap. Most of it, when you read it, just sounds like common sense hardly worth writing down, and then you remember how **** mangled it has become by business types, and realise more people probably need to read about what they're pretending to believe in. True agile probably need a reboot and rebranding after how much its name has been dragged through the mud by people who've been on a 3 day course. I have worked an agile methodology with about 8 clients. Only 1 of them actually did it correctly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Seat68 said: I have worked an agile methodology with about 8 clients. Only 1 of them could be bothered to do it correctly. Corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Seat68 said: I have worked an agile methodology with about 8 clients. Only 1 of them actually did it correctly. I reckon in places I've worked, only about 1 in 8 had any business even trying. The longer I've worked across multiple "agile" organisations, the more I believe that it's a way of working that only really works in highly capable teams. The emphasis is getting out of the way of self-organising, motivated teams, while they build things with "technical excellence", which is all well and good in very good teams. What happens when you leave a team alone who aren't capable of self-organising? You have a bloody disaster. It should probably be the principles to work by for every company in silicon valley, but elsewhere probably by exception, IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Seat68 said: I have worked an agile methodology with about 8 clients. Only 1 of them actually did it correctly. There's another one. 'Methodology' is the study of methods. SSADM, PRINCE, etc. are methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Yes and no. If you do some modern "scrum" bullshit driven by some external training company, it's bollocks. Agile done right is just a good way of working, particularly in software development where it originated. I suspect fewer than 5% of companies that pat themselves on the back about being agile actually are. A truly agile mindset from an engineering team is a terrifying prospect to the average management team. If anyone is interested, this is what agile actually is. Not stand ups and sprints. It's not a prescribed methodology or framework, it's a set of guiding principles https://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html It's just about seeking frequent feedback, continuous interactions, collaboration, sustainability and empowering workers rather than micromanaging them with a roadmap. Most of it, when you read it, just sounds like common sense hardly worth writing down, and then you remember how **** mangled it has become by business types, and realise more people probably need to read about what they're pretending to believe in. True agile probably need a reboot and rebranding after how much its name has been dragged through the mud by people who've been on a 3 day course. People trying to embrace it in non-software development businesses surprise me and I'm not so surprised it's unpopular. If it works for you and your guys great. But its just another b***** working methodology, which is mostly common sense, made up by some white collar corporate ideologist, I know them all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) I've worked in finance for 20 years and never came across any use of these things like Lean/Agile/Six Sigma. I've heard of them, but no experience of them. Guess its more beneficial in project work? Edited June 28, 2023 by Xela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Tomorrow morning I will talk about DevOps. Only joking it will be something about the dog or something universal that pisses me off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 10 hours ago, Seat68 said: 30 minute stand up each morning When are you on at the Glee Club? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 We’ve moved to agile at work and it works excellently. But it’s only as good as the program team running it. It’s not going to make a shit program manager better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Xela said: When are you on at the Glee Club? Who remembers spangles? White dog poo. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Seat68 said: Who remembers spangles? White dog poo. Tiswas! What was all that about eh?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Xela said: When are you on at the Glee Club? That was my first thought but then the Scrum Master really threw me. I'd gone from comedy to rugby and was still non the wiser. Edited June 28, 2023 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) In our company agile working just means a few days in the office and a few days at home. We have team meetings when needed and those are hosted by a team leader. We've obviously not spent enough on management consultants. Edited June 28, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Xela said: Tiswas! What was all that about eh?! Boobies and custard after dark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Xela said: Tiswas! What was all that about eh?! The late-night version I think was called OTT, there was a section on each show with a large breasted, black beauty, getting her tits out, but not showing her nipples, but she did eventually I think? Also, I remember a Mr mangetout, who appeared to eat his own brains which made my head go funny at the time Edited June 28, 2023 by Follyfoot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: The late-night version I think was called OTT, there was a section on each show with a large breasted, black beauty, getting her tits out, but not showing her nipples, but she did eventually I think? Also, I remember a Mr mangetout, who appeared to eat his own brains which made my head go funny at the time is Geezer ate a cesena plane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: We’ve moved to agile at work and it works excellently. But it’s only as good as the program team running it. It’s not going to make a shit program manager better It works reasonably well where I am. As I mentioned before, with hybrid working the structured meetings are a good way of getting people together at set points. Transparency of who is doing what and when is also a good idea. Theres always room for improvement but in general it works quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekka Posted June 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Geezer ate a cesena plane. There is probably a Guinness Awards plaque around somewhere stating "the first person to consume a Guinness Awards plaque". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 28, 2023 Administrator Share Posted June 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Xela said: I've worked in finance for 20 years and never came across any use of these things like Lean/Agile/Six Sigma. I've heard of them, but no experience of them. Guess its more beneficial in project work? Is this a traditional finance department or one that's realised that spreadsheets are shit for finance work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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