tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Same here. Council estate upbringing, but my parents taught me good manners and an ethical code. this and I'm teaching my kids the same ..though maybe not the council estate upbringing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm trying to understand this comment .... what do you mean by it ?I think nepotism is what it's called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 12, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2013 Same here. Council estate upbringing, but my parents taught me good manners and an ethical code. this and I'm teaching my kids the same ..though maybe not the council estate upbringing Well my kids haven't had that either. They are middle class by any economic definition. But I don't agree that only the kids from privileged backgrounds will succeed - provided that education is the same level playing field that gave me my opportunities. That means full university grants and not fees. I'm all in favour of an elitist meritocracy, provided everybody gets an equal shot at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Same here. Council estate upbringing, but my parents taught me good manners and an ethical code. this and I'm teaching my kids the same ..though maybe not the council estate upbringing Well my kids haven't had that either. They are middle class by any economic definition. But I don't agree that only the kids from privileged backgrounds will succeed - provided that education is the same level playing field that gave me my opportunities. That means full university grants and not fees. I'm all in favour of an elitist meritocracy, provided everybody gets an equal shot at it. yeah this was the bit I wasn't sure about in Trent's post ... wasn't sure if that was what he meant or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 12, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2013 Same here. Council estate upbringing, but my parents taught me good manners and an ethical code. this and I'm teaching my kids the same ..though maybe not the council estate upbringing Well my kids haven't had that either. They are middle class by any economic definition. But I don't agree that only the kids from privileged backgrounds will succeed - provided that education is the same level playing field that gave me my opportunities. That means full university grants and not fees. I'm all in favour of an elitist meritocracy, provided everybody gets an equal shot at it. yeah this was the bit I wasn't sure about in Trent's post ... wasn't sure if that was what he meant or not Well he has a point, the way things are going. I'm sure your Tory mates would like to get it back to the days of education only being for those who can afford it. Of course, they'd need to think up some getout clause to stop the nouveau riches sneaking in, but I expect they could think of a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 My parents were the biggest and best influence in my life. My mother tried her best to keep me and my older brother out of trouble. Moved out of housing estate when we could afford it to a house with a back garden that we could play in supervised. She made sure we went to schools outside the local area to further stop us becoming one of those kids hanging round on the streets. To make sure we didn't have local friends. All my friends required a lift to get to bar neighbours. My Dad just set a good example of hardworking father. Didn't miss a days work for a 7 year stretch once. Which I'm about to surpass having never taken a sick day in my life yet. But I get it that if parents don't care about their children as much then it could end up being teachers who have to be the positive influence on their young lives. Same here. Council estate upbringing, but my parents taught me good manners and an ethical code. Most importantly, my mum had taught me to read by the age of three, which has probably been the single most important factor in shaping my life (I did the same for my kids, incidentally). Throw in a few inspirational teachers (among all the duff ones), and that's who I am, for better or worse. Nothing much else matters. (Not that sick leave thing, though. Nothing wrong with the odd sickie). Yeah we moved out of the estate when I was 7 just around the corner to a house on main road after I got beat up by an older kid and with ice cold blood went into my house and got a hammer from my dad's toolbox and went back out. Thankfully my Dad saw me as he was coming into the estate and ran over to disarm me. Took on serious debt and took help from my grandparents to afford that move. But my mother was worried about what person I'd grow up to be with such cold calculated revenge exhibited rather than any outward emotional rage or something more manageable. Took a lot of effort to raise us differently than everyone around us. Thankfully things got easier as the Irish economy improved and my Dad's hard work led to promotions. But as a young family times were tough. I had never had new clothes always hand me downs from my brother. Kinda proud of that upbringing. Very level headed and pragmatic about things. Sure as we say, things are bad but it's hardly like we're back in the 80s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2013 But I don't agree that only the kids from privileged backgrounds will succeedHe never said 'only' they would succeed. He said that they would succeed owing to privilege but that comment doesn't preclude others from succeeding too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Huge thing of importance in my time was the free 3rd level education in Ireland. That simply the amount of points attained in Leaving Cert state exams decided what course you got into in College. That the state would pay all the fees. Really gave me the opportunity to succeed. Had I grown up in USA I'd surely not have gone to College Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 So i got my first placement and I'm extremely excited, but the school I'm in isn't that great. Everyone just keeps telling me it's an opportunity to be an outstanding teacher and show the terrible ones up. Oh and it has a green uniform! Urgh So? Why do you want to become a teacher? Is it for the holidays? To work with kids that will succeed anyway due to their opportunities of birth or is it to make a difference? I don't mean to give you a hard time but I've spent 13 years working alongside Teachers and the education sector and the negativity around certain schools from teachers really annoys me. If you become or want to become a teacher to make a difference to kids lives, which surely is the main reason anyone wants to be a teacher, then you want to try and work with and help those kids who need you the most? I'm trying to understand this comment .... what do you mean by it ? Kids doing well to due to being born into a multitude of socio - economic advantages. It ain't rocket science Mr loc ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2013 As already talked about in this topic, the 12th July is one of my least favourite days of the year. The Orange Lodge next to our office were out in force first thing this morning, warming up for ever in the car park, then marching around the local streets before marching off to meet the other Lodges close to the city centre. Ready to cause chaos at the end of rush hour marching through the city. Then they all head off to Southport to get drunk.Vermin the lot of them.I never work in the car on the 12th. Drunk Orangemen really wouldn't be getting in my car, more tempting to put them under the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 12, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2013 But I don't agree that only the kids from privileged backgrounds will succeed He never said 'only' they would succeed. He said that they would succeed owing to privilege but that comment doesn't preclude others from succeeding too. It's too simplistic though. They may be the cream of England (rich, white, thick and full of clots), and daddy might swing them a job in the city, or a commission in his old regiment, but otherwise it will only take them so far. Academically, only the smart will get to the top, regardless of background. But the opportunities need to be fair. For ALL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yeah but we know what he meant by the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) So i got my first placement and I'm extremely excited, but the school I'm in isn't that great. Everyone just keeps telling me it's an opportunity to be an outstanding teacher and show the terrible ones up. Oh and it has a green uniform! Urgh So? Why do you want to become a teacher? Is it for the holidays? To work with kids that will succeed anyway due to their opportunities of birth or is it to make a difference? I don't mean to give you a hard time but I've spent 13 years working alongside Teachers and the education sector and the negativity around certain schools from teachers really annoys me. If you become or want to become a teacher to make a difference to kids lives, which surely is the main reason anyone wants to be a teacher, then you want to try and work with and help those kids who need you the most? I'm trying to understand this comment .... what do you mean by it ? Kids doing well to due to being born into a multitude of socio - economic advantages. It ain't rocket science Mr loc ;-) well I thought it better to ask him what he did mean rather than making wild assumptions .. you seem to be suggesting that rich people can't produce dumb kids though ? As discussed earlier with MJ , I came form a " poor'ish " background , have done reasonable well with my working life and have made a choice to put my kids into private school ... they are hardly going to succeed due to "opportunities of birth" ... what they may get is an extra foot up education wise , but they aren't going to waltz into the top jobs or sit at home living on some form of trust fund There are parents of kids at my children's school with more money than Lamberts transfer budget .. there are however also children there with parents very much middle class we have decided to make a few sacrifices and get the children a decent education ... private school isn't merely for the inbred , is all I'm trying to say Edited July 12, 2013 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yeah but we know what he meant by the comment. clearly not otherwise I wouldn't have asked But MJ has but it said it perfectly in his post above yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2013 you seem to be suggesting that rich people can't produce dumb kids though ? Rich and poor both produce clever AND dumb kids. The rich more often than not get plentiful opportunities based on social position whether they're clever or dumb. The poor usually have to work for their opportunities but nothing is saying they won't succeed. And then there's Boris Johnson. Yeah but we know what he meant by the comment.clearly not otherwise I wouldn't have asked Well the clever ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 12, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2013 you seem to be suggesting that rich people can't produce dumb kids though ? Rich and poor both produce clever AND dumb kids. The rich more often than not get plentiful opportunities based on social position whether they're clever or dumb. The poor usually have to work for their opportunities but nothing is saying they won't succeed. And then there's Boris Johnson. The thing about Boris, is that on one level he's highly intelligent. Unfortunately, it's not in any way that fits him for public office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Boris only acts like a philistine, I think he puts it on for the audience... Edited July 12, 2013 by AVFCforever1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2013 I shouldn't have mentioned him because it seems to have distracted from the main point of the post. Rookie error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 you seem to be suggesting that rich people can't produce dumb kids though ? Rich and poor both produce clever AND dumb kids. I was being slightly facetious btw ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Same here. Council estate upbringing, but my parents taught me good manners and an ethical code. this and I'm teaching my kids the same ..though maybe not the council estate upbringing Well my kids haven't had that either. They are middle class by any economic definition. But I don't agree that only the kids from privileged backgrounds will succeed - provided that education is the same level playing field that gave me my opportunities. That means full university grants and not fees. I'm all in favour of an elitist meritocracy, provided everybody gets an equal shot at it. yeah this was the bit I wasn't sure about in Trent's post ... wasn't sure if that was what he meant or not Well he has a point, the way things are going. I'm sure your Tory mates would like to get it back to the days of education only being for those who can afford it. yeah it's in the manifesto just under the bit about sending the kids of the poor down coal mines and up chimneys .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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