Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: Different demographics again. He's MUCH more 'famous' to me than ANY popstar/DJ/model. The numbers are irrelevant. As someone said upthread, the nature of VT (being a Villa fan being the only common denominator, otherwise a huge range of ages, nationalities, tastes, etc.) produces an easily drawn venn diagram. Yes but famous to you isn’t the metric. Stormzy or Maya Jama are objectively more famous than Janusczak. That’s not me saying you should or shouldn’t know who some or all of those people are. But saying being surprised someone hasn’t heard of stormzy is the same as being surprised that someone hasn’t heard of Waldemar Janusczak is just a silly comparison. It would be like saying someone not being aware of who Michael Jackson is is the same as someone not knowing who Isaiah Osbourne is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: But he is, you are confusing your areas of knowledge with universal knowledge. Not every famous dancer is currently on Strictly. Not every famous musician is a Spotify algorithm. You can be known in your own field that not everyone is familiar with. I’d be confident there are ‘famous’ tattoo artists that are revered for what they do and have a waiting list. Me not knowing them doesn’t mean anything. There are people that are famous in the VW Drag Racing community, that famous tattooist may never have heard of them or even know people race VW Beetles. It’s not a terrible comparison, it’s exactly what the issue is. ‘Your’ world is not ‘the’ world. I’m fascinated people can’t get that. See above. The metric isn’t your knowledge. It’s everyone’s knowledge. If you ask 100 people on the street if they recognise Stormzy then you’d probably get 90 people saying they did. You’d probably get 5 saying they recognised Januaczak Saying their equivalent just isn’t true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AVFC_Hitz Posted August 23 Popular Post Share Posted August 23 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Waldemar Januszczak Christ, are we still trying to sign him? 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: See above. The metric isn’t your knowledge. It’s everyone’s knowledge. If you ask 100 people on the street if they recognise Stormzy then you’d probably get 90 people saying they did. You’d probably get 5 saying they recognised Januaczak Saying their equivalent just isn’t true So, what number are you deciding defines fame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 23 Moderator Share Posted August 23 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: See above. The metric isn’t your knowledge. It’s everyone’s knowledge. Actually no, that's your metric. You think someone is really famous, to you they are, to others they aren't You appear to be assuming that because you know, that makes them famous. She is famous in a certain demographic, outside of that she's an absolute no-one King Charles, is really really famous. Paul McCartney is, ironically so is Banksy. They transcend demographics, she doesn't. Noel Gallagher is more famous than her but even then only within certain parameters. Just because you think she is, doesn't make it so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: If you ask 100 people on the street if they recognise Stormzy then you’d probably get 90 people saying they did. Depends on who the hundred people are. Are they selected truly randomly? Do they represent all sections of society? Take age, for example: 29.1% of all people in England and Wales (17.3 million) were under 25 years old, 20.2% (12.0 million) were 25 to 39 years old, 26.3% (15.6 million) were 40 to 59 years old, and 24.4% (14.5 million) were aged 60 and over. So, if you selected your 100 people with those proportions, do you still think you'd get a 90% recognition for Stormzy? (Bear in mind that this is before we've even taken into account other demographic factors, such as ethnicity, educational levels, etc.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So, what number are you deciding defines fame? I'm not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Actually no, that's your metric. You think someone is really famous, to you they are, to others they aren't You appear to be assuming that because you know, that makes them famous. She is famous in a certain demographic, outside of that she's an absolute no-one King Charles, is really really famous. Paul McCartney is, ironically so is Banksy. They transcend demographics, she doesn't. Noel Gallagher is more famous than her but even then only within certain parameters. Just because you think she is, doesn't make it so. No, everyone thinks they're famous. That was my point. Again, everyone seems to be replying as if I'm saying people SHOULD know who these people are. I'm not saying that at all. It's completely understandable. My points were: SOME people on VT seem to take pride in not knowing who really famous people are Saying Waldemar Januszczak is as famous as Maya Jama and.or Stormzy is objectively not true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 3 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Depends on who the hundred people are. Are they selected truly randomly? Do they represent all sections of society? Take age, for example: 29.1% of all people in England and Wales (17.3 million) were under 25 years old, 20.2% (12.0 million) were 25 to 39 years old, 26.3% (15.6 million) were 40 to 59 years old, and 24.4% (14.5 million) were aged 60 and over. So, if you selected your 100 people with those proportions, do you still think you'd get a 90% recognition for Stormzy? (Bear in mind that this is before we've even taken into account other demographic factors, such as ethnicity, educational levels, etc.) Come on Mike. You know what I meant. Make it a sample of 10,000. a million. 10 million Again, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW WHO STORMZY IS I'm saying claiming not knowing who he is is just as surprising as not knowing who Waldemar Januszczak just isn't true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm not Well you’ve clearly decided it’s somewhere between 90 and 5. Would an opera singer not be famous if they scored 12? Would the footballer Derek Tapscott no longer be famous if only 4 people on High Street in Walsall had heard of him? It just doesn’t work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: Well you’ve clearly decided it’s somewhere between 90 and 5. Would an opera singer not be famous if they scored 12? Would the footballer Derek Tapscott no longer be famous if only 4 people on High Street in Walsall had heard of him? It just doesn’t work like that. You're arguing with yourself. I made no such point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 The metrics of fame are ultimately intangible and unknowable. Much like the very bottom of my laundry basket. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroesAndVillans Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 Who is famous and who isn't is a matter of individual opinion, I think. It all depends on how famous you consider that particular person to be. Somoene who means nothing to you could be another person's favourite singer/actor etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Again, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW WHO STORMZY IS You literally said 90% would! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 Just now, mjmooney said: You literally said 90% would! Would. Not should. Im not for one second suggesting that you SHOULD know who Stormzy is. What I was saying is comparing his fame to some obscure artist is not the same. Because Stormzy is objectively more famous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, HeroesAndVillans said: Who is famous and who isn't is a matter of individual opinion, I think. It all depends on how famous you consider that particular person to be. Somoene who means nothing to you could be another person's favourite singer/actor etc. I mean, assuming we have the same definition of fame, ie people knowing who someone is, then this just is not true. Favourtism is irrelevant. My favourite actor might be Stephen Graham, but he’s obviously less famous than Will Smith So opinion has nothing to do with it. If you could sample a million people and ask them to recognise two actors, and 90% recognised one and only 10% the other, the first one is more famous than the second. There’s no debate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 23 Moderator Share Posted August 23 Just now, Stevo985 said: Would. Not should. Im not for one second suggesting that you SHOULD know who Stormzy is. What I was saying is comparing his fame to some obscure artist is not the same. Because Stormzy is objectively more famous. objectively famous. The whole point is that it can't be something that is objective. You've failed to understand this the whole way through Fame isn't a tangible thing, it is entirely subjective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23 Just now, bickster said: objectively famous. The whole point is that it can't be something that is objective. You've failed to understand this the whole way through Fame isn't a tangible thing, it is entirely subjective See above. Unless we have a different definition of fame, it’s not subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: You're arguing with yourself. I made no such point I’m not trying to be a dick in any way, I’m not ‘arguing’. But we clearly do have very different definitions of famous. I’ve just walked past a statue of Ivor Novello. By definition a famous person, they’ve bothered with a statue. I personally would argue more famous than anyone that appeared in series 7 of Big Brother.* Would people on a High Street in Staffordshire agree with me? I don’t know and I don’t consider it relevant. * random example, for all I know there is no series 7. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m not trying to be a dick in any way, I’m not ‘arguing’. But we clearly do have very different definitions of famous. I’ve just walked past a statue of Ivor Novello. By definition a famous person, they’ve bothered with a statue. I personally would argue more famous than anyone that appeared in series 7 of Big Brother.* Would people on a High Street in Staffordshire agree with me? I don’t know and I don’t consider it relevant. * random example, for all I know there is no series 7. Fame isn't permanent though, Novello died over 70 years ago, of course he is no longer famous no matter how influential he was, very few people are sufficiently famous enough to remain famous over half a century after their death. Also funnily enough, Stormzy won a Novello award in 2018 for Gang Signs & Prayers and has been nominated a further 3 times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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