Things that piss you off that shouldn't

[Genie]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

You're also using electricity to heat the water coming out of your tap, and most modern dishwashers are cold-fill only. It's more of a wash (so to speak) than you'd think.

I’m sure this is one of the most boring discussions ever on VT  but a few seconds of gas to heat the water versus 45+ minutes of heating and pumping water within the dishwasher. I’d always assumed they were a relatively expensive way to clean the dishes.

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m sure this is one of the most boring discussions ever on VT  but a few seconds of gas to heat the water versus 45+ minutes of heating and pumping water within the dishwasher. I’d always assumed they were a relatively expensive way to clean the dishes.

It's difficult to provide a definitive answer, because it depends to a large extent on *how* somebody does the hand-washing, and how old the dishwasher is. As I say, if you have enough space to have one bowl of hot water for washing and one bowl of cold water for rinsing, and once those bowls are filled you do not turn the tap on again, then maybe you are competitive with a dishwasher in terms of efficiency. But if you start having to fill multiple bowls, or rinse anything under the tap, you won't be.

To be clear though, modern dishwashers don't spend 45 minutes heating water, or anything like it. Energy efficient ones really do run efficiently.

I once read an article that I found interesting but maybe nobody else ever would which was about how the mid-20th-century was a period of inventing more and more labour-saving devices, and that the story of the last 20-30 years has been our gradual retreat from them to more labour-intensive and environmentally unfriendly equivalents, another obvious example of which is the drive-thru carwash vs the hand car wash.

You're right this is boring

[lapal_fan]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's difficult to provide a definitive answer, because it depends to a large extent on *how* somebody does the hand-washing, and how old the dishwasher is. As I say, if you have enough space to have one bowl of hot water for washing and one bowl of cold water for rinsing, and once those bowls are filled you do not turn the tap on again, then maybe you are competitive with a dishwasher in terms of efficiency. But if you start having to fill multiple bowls, or rinse anything under the tap, you won't be.

To be clear though, modern dishwashers don't spend 45 minutes heating water, or anything like it. Energy efficient ones really do run efficiently.

I once read an article that I found interesting but maybe nobody else ever would which was about how the mid-20th-century was a period of inventing more and more labour-saving devices, and that the story of the last 20-30 years has been our gradual retreat from them to more labour-intensive and environmentally unfriendly equivalents, another obvious example of which is the drive-thru carwash vs the hand car wash.

You're right this is boring

You're in my world now, boy.

It takes about 0.183 kWh to boil a litre of water, and 1 litre of boiling water is more than enough hot water (along with cold water) to do dishes.

On an average dishwasher, a cycle will use 1.5 kWh, including the heating of water and the mechanical energy. 

A modern dishwasher uses on average 12 litres of water to go through a cycle.  A washing up bowl uses about 7-9 litres.

Dishwashers aren't and most likely never will be as environmentally/energy efficient as washing up by hand. 

FIN. 

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

You're in my world now, boy.

It takes about 0.183 kWh to boil a litre of water, and 1 litre of boiling water is more than enough hot water (along with cold water) to do dishes.

On an average dishwasher, a cycle will use 1.5 kWh, including the heating of water and the mechanical energy. 

A modern dishwasher uses on average 12 litres of water to go through a cycle.  A washing up bowl uses about 7-9 litres.

Dishwashers aren't and most likely never will be as environmentally/energy efficient as washing up by hand. 

FIN. 

What I'm disputing is that that is how most people hand-wash dishes (I'm not gonna lie, it certainly isn't how I hand-wash dishes).

[ender4]

38 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

 

A modern dishwasher uses on average 12 litres of water to go through a cycle.  A washing up bowl uses about 7-9 litres.

Dishwashers aren't and most likely never will be as environmentally/energy efficient as washing up by hand. 

 

This must be a very old-school English way of hand washing dishes.

I don't know anyone who washes their dishes in a washing up bowl. That wouldn't clean dishes properly.   

Most people have the tap running and wash each dish under the tap as they clean it.

[sidcow]

37 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

You're in my world now, boy.

It takes about 0.183 kWh to boil a litre of water, and 1 litre of boiling water is more than enough hot water (along with cold water) to do dishes.

On an average dishwasher, a cycle will use 1.5 kWh, including the heating of water and the mechanical energy. 

A modern dishwasher uses on average 12 litres of water to go through a cycle.  A washing up bowl uses about 7-9 litres.

Dishwashers aren't and most likely never will be as environmentally/energy efficient as washing up by hand. 

FIN. 

Who the feck can wash an entire meals worth of cups, plates cutlery and cooking equipment in one bowl of water. It's gonna take 3 minumum unless you are finishing washing up in actual soup. Disgusting. 

Which brings me onto hygiene. Dishwashers are significantly more hygienic. 

[Chindie]

I use a washing up bowl. I'm 32. We just always have.

[mjmooney]

35 minutes ago, ender4 said:

This must be a very old-school English way of hand washing dishes.

I don't know anyone who washes their dishes in a washing up bowl. That wouldn't clean dishes properly.   

Most people have the tap running and wash each dish under the tap as they clean it.

WHAAAT??? Where does the washing-up liquid fit into this bizarre method? 

Of course I use a bowl, don't be ridiculous. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

WHAAAT??? Where does the washing-up liquid fit into this bizarre method?

[Seat68]

51 minutes ago, ender4 said:

This must be a very old-school English way of hand washing dishes.

I don't know anyone who washes their dishes in a washing up bowl. That wouldn't clean dishes properly.   

Most people have the tap running and wash each dish under the tap as they clean it.

I fill a bowl, wash and pop on the draining board, then I dry up. 

You will be saying most people stand up to wipe their arse next. 
 

[bickster]

Sorry this dishwasher debate is nonsense. The dishwasher vs handwashing figures are always using a full Dishwasher. To fill our dishwasher would sometimes take 3 days

Also the energy thing. If a dishwasher is cold fill it is using electricity to heat the water which is far more expensive than using gas through a combi-boiler on demand

Supposedly dishwashers are capped at using 5 gallons of water which is about 23 litres of water but most older models are capped at 10 gallons (ours is definitely older). There's no way I use 45 litres of water doing the washing up. I reckon our sink uses about 5 litres when doing the washing up plus probably the same again for rinsing.

[Designer1]

[lapal_fan]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Sorry this dishwasher debate is nonsense. The dishwasher vs handwashing figures are always using a full Dishwasher. To fill our dishwasher would sometimes take 3 days

Also the energy thing. If a dishwasher is cold fill it is using electricity to heat the water which is far more expensive than using gas through a combi-boiler on demand

Supposedly dishwashers are capped at using 5 gallons of water which is about 23 litres of water but most older models are capped at 10 gallons (ours is definitely older). There's no way I use 45 litres of water doing the washing up. I reckon our sink uses about 5 litres when doing the washing up plus probably the same again for rinsing.

Yea, the example I used was for a 12 peice cutlery set, it would take a family of four a day an a half to fill.

I generally use 2 bowls of water, one for plates/cutlery band one for cooking stuff. If it's particularly dirty, maybe a third.  Still less kWh/water usage than a cycle on a dishwasher.

[bickster]

Just now, Designer1 said:

At least it isn't the Mums Net conversation we had yesterday, this is definitely Dads Net 

[bickster]

27 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I bought one of them once. Used 2 months worth of Fairy Liquid in a week

[ender4]

41 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

WHAAAT??? Where does the washing-up liquid fit into this bizarre method? 

You put a bit on the sponge after every few dishes.

[HanoiVillan]

22 minutes ago, bickster said:

Sorry this dishwasher debate is nonsense. The dishwasher vs handwashing figures are always using a full Dishwasher. To fill our dishwasher would sometimes take 3 days

Also the energy thing. If a dishwasher is cold fill it is using electricity to heat the water which is far more expensive than using gas through a combi-boiler on demand

Supposedly dishwashers are capped at using 5 gallons of water which is about 23 litres of water but most older models are capped at 10 gallons (ours is definitely older). There's no way I use 45 litres of water doing the washing up. I reckon our sink uses about 5 litres when doing the washing up plus probably the same again for rinsing.

Kind of seems like the problem is not *dishwashers*, but *your dishwasher* to be honest. You would want a smaller and newer model. I mean it wouldn't make sense for me to drive to work in an articulated lorry either.

[bickster]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

Kind of seems like the problem is not *dishwashers*, but *your dishwasher* to be honest. You would want a smaller and newer model. I mean it wouldn't make sense for me to drive to work in an articulated lorry either.

Nope, not my dishwasher, comes with the house. Out of my control. Assuming that people own and control the means of production is rather post-marxist don'tcha think?

[BOF]

28 minutes ago, bickster said:

Sorry this dishwasher debate is nonsense. The dishwasher vs handwashing figures are always using a full Dishwasher. To fill our dishwasher would sometimes take 3 days

Also the energy thing. If a dishwasher is cold fill it is using electricity to heat the water which is far more expensive than using gas through a combi-boiler on demand

Supposedly dishwashers are capped at using 5 gallons of water which is about 23 litres of water but most older models are capped at 10 gallons (ours is definitely older). There's no way I use 45 litres of water doing the washing up. I reckon our sink uses about 5 litres when doing the washing up plus probably the same again for rinsing.

This. I also wash as I go because I'm not a lazy arse, and we would probably run out of dinner plates before we managed to fill one. They make no sense for the amount of washing up we do and they are comparitively inefficient because of that.  I think we're definitely in the right thread though. This or the boring thread.  I fell asleep twice writing this post.

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Nope, not my dishwasher, comes with the house. Out of my control. Assuming that people own and control the means of production is rather post-marxist don'tcha think?

I'm only teasing you, obviously if it doesn't work for your circumstances then you're right not to use it.