Zatman Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Just now, Genie said: Didn't he have them about 6th in the table when he was sacked? They were about midtable, stupid to sack him due to fan populism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Genie said: Not sure even MA would re-appoint Sam after last time (where tbf he did a pretty good job, just not good enough for the fans at that time). Allerdyce claimed on talksport he was offered the job after Benitez left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 12, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Genie said: Not sure even MA would re-appoint Sam after last time (where tbf he did a pretty good job, just not good enough for the fans at that time). Supposedly he was offered the job by MA after Rafa left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Apparently Ashley offered Big Sam the job after Rafa left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted August 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2019 Has anyone heard whether Allardyce has been offered the job at any point? Or when he might have been offered it? 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 19 hours ago, Keyblade said: He won the Championship on the first time of asking and kept them up twice. The former is something his successor has never achieved and we'll have to see on the latter but all signs are pointing to another x in that column. He also sent them down. Newcastle were only in the bottom 3 on goal difference when he took over, then finished a number of points behind Sunderland. And since people love talking about spend so much with Bruce, Rafa spent more in one summer in the Championship than Bruce did in 4 windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, kurtsimonw said: He also sent them down. Newcastle were only in the bottom 3 on goal difference when he took over, then finished a number of points behind Sunderland. And since people love talking about spend so much with Bruce, Rafa spent more in one summer in the Championship than Bruce did in 4 windows. You’ve been fond of pointing out Bruce’s net spend during his time here. What was Rafa’s net spend that summer? A quick search suggests Newcastle spent about £60m and brought in £90m. So a £30m profit and championship winners in one season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Still dont get the comparison between Bruce and Rafa. Rafa has managed huge clubs throughout Europe for a reason and the biggest club Bruce managed was in the 2nd division at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 I don't mind a comparison between the 2 bruce getting promoted with blues 17 years ago is as relevant today as rafa winning the league with Valencia 18 years ago there was a reason rafa was at big clubs and then there is a reason he's not anymore, the difference between rafa and bruce is fans got fed up of bruce and called him out whereas rafa's decline hasn't impacted his reputation, which I am in no way shape or form suggesting is largely due to him being considered untouchable by a certain group of easily offended fans from the north west, interestingly flipping it on its head and ignoring the fans opinion you could argue Bruce's CV is getting more successful, he's dropped leagues and stopped winning but villa, Wednesday and Newcastle are the 3 biggest clubs he's managed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said: You’ve been fond of pointing out Bruce’s net spend during his time here. What was Rafa’s net spend that summer? A quick search suggests Newcastle spent about £60m and brought in £90m. So a £30m profit and championship winners in one season. So you're saying Rafa got relegated with players of that kind of value in his squad? Top manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I don't mind a comparison between the 2 bruce getting promoted with blues 17 years ago is as relevant today as rafa winning the league with Valencia 18 years ago there was a reason rafa was at big clubs and then there is a reason he's not anymore, the difference between rafa and bruce is fans got fed up of bruce and called him out whereas rafa's decline hasn't impacted his reputation, which I am in no way shape or form suggesting is largely due to him being considered untouchable by a certain group of easily offended fans from the north west, interestingly flipping it on its head and ignoring the fans opinion you could argue Bruce's CV is getting more successful, he's dropped leagues and stopped winning but villa, Wednesday and Newcastle are the 3 biggest clubs he's managed Seeing as people are so fond of views of other clubs - ask Chelsea, Napoli, Madrid and Inter fans their thoughts on Rafa. How many coaches have failed to succeed managing that many big, successful, clubs? Bruce will get more points at Newcastle than Rafa did, and won't get them relegated - quote me on it. Do people actually disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said: You’ve been fond of pointing out Bruce’s net spend during his time here. What was Rafa’s net spend that summer? A quick search suggests Newcastle spent about £60m and brought in £90m. So a £30m profit and championship winners in one season. 5 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: So you're saying Rafa got relegated with players of that kind of value in his squad? Top manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: So you're saying Rafa got relegated with players of that kind of value in his squad? Top manager. Well as you pointed out they were in the relegation zone when he took over, so their quality is debatable. He then faced the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Leicester in the run in. But you pointing out how much he spent with no reference to his net spend contradicts your defence of Bruce’s tenure here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Bruce will get more points at Newcastle than Rafa did, and won't get them relegated - quote me on it. Do people actually disagree? Did you see the Arsenal game? Can't see where the goals are coming from. They are thoughtless in the final third. Might get loads of 0-0 games though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Seeing as people are so fond of views of other clubs - ask Chelsea, Napoli, Madrid and Inter fans their thoughts on Rafa. How many coaches have failed to succeed managing that many big, successful, clubs? Bruce will get more points at Newcastle than Rafa did, and won't get them relegated - quote me on it. Do people actually disagree? Yes, I think there is more chance of Newcastle being relegated with Bruce in charge instead of Rafa. That doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s nailed on they’re going to finish 20th or anything like that. I just think they would have stood more chance of staying up if Rafa had stayed. Edited August 13, 2019 by Shropshire Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: Well as you pointed out they were in the relegation zone when he took over, so their quality is debatable. He then faced the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Leicester in the run in. But you pointing out how much he spent with no reference to his net spend contradicts your defence of Bruce’s tenure here. And not the likes of Sunderland and Norwich? He bottled it, they finished further from safety than when he took over from McLaren. Not really? Bruce took over after the summer window finished so didn't get the "benfit" of selling £40m worth of players, on top of his net profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Well at least Bruce had a better playing career than Rafa. Managerial wise they are as far apart as Mon is to Mourinho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: And not the likes of Sunderland and Norwich? He bottled it, they finished further from safety than when he took over from McLaren. Not really? Bruce took over after the summer window finished so didn't get the "benfit" of selling £40m worth of players, on top of his net profit. There were a few games that looking back you’d think, that should be a win. I’d be more forgiving of the Sunderland result - local derby, Sunderland seem to have a hold over them. Newcastle’s result against us was poorer in my opinion. On the second point, you’re basically saying “Rafa is crap, he had £90m worth of talent and got relegated”. But you’re also saying Bruce is great for his net spend, for getting £10m for Amavi, £7m for Gestede, £5m for Westwood etc etc....well why can’t it be “Bruce had all these valuable players at his disposal....and we were nowhere near promotion in his first season”? And I don’t just mean players he sold, the expensive players he didn’t buy but regularly played...he may not have spent £15m on Kodjia but he certainly benefited from him... Edited August 13, 2019 by Shropshire Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: There were a few games that looking back you’d think, that should be a win. I’d be more forgiving of the Sunderland result - local derby, Sunderland seem to have a hold over them. Newcastle’s result against us was poorer in my opinion. On the second point, you’re basically saying “Rafa is crap, he had £90m worth of talent and got relegated”. But you’re also saying Bruce is great for his net spend, for getting £10m for Amavi, £7m for Gestede, £5m for Westwood etc etc....well why can’t it be “Bruce had all these valuable players at his disposal....and we were nowhere near promotion in his first season”? I'm going to guess that Bruce didn't have a full season was really important while Rafa taking over in the middle of March isn't somehow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: There were a few games that looking back you’d think, that should be a win. I’d be more forgiving of the Sunderland result - local derby, Sunderland seem to have a hold over them. Newcastle’s result against us was poorer in my opinion. On the second point, you’re basically saying “Rafa is crap, he had £90m worth of talent and got relegated”. But you’re also saying Bruce is great for his net spend, for getting £10m for Amavi, £7m for Gestede, £5m for Westwood etc etc....well why can’t it be “Bruce had all these valuable players at his disposal....and we were nowhere near promotion in his first season”? And I don’t just mean players he sold, the expensive players he didn’t buy but regularly played...he may not have spent £15m on Kodjia but he certainly benefited from him... That's hardly £90m though, is it? And getting £17m for Amavi and Gestede is essentially robbery by the club. As for Bruce being great. Never said that, never will. He's far from it. Edited August 13, 2019 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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