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Stockholm Burning

maqroll

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peterms Newbie

peterms

Posted
Posted

Well wrong means..i think that you are wrong in what you are saying,i do not agree with you okey ? English is not my first language and i dont speak it fluenty so it would be much easier for me if i could write in my first language..Perhaps you understand swedish ?

 

First of all that man was out threatening people with his machete or let's say it was a knife..dosent make much difference,it's a lethal weapon anyway..alot of people called the police,the police came to the scene asked the man to come out of his home..the man refused to do so,and after a while the police decided to enter the man's home,when the first police enter the man comes running against the police with a machete/knife the police fears for his own life and shoots the man...what would you have done if you were that police man ??

 

These poeple you are talking about with the unfortunate childhoods and brain injurys are the ones throwing the stones and setting fire to cars and causing damages for millions and millions....so what do you suggest we do to fix the problem ? you just think that the police shall stand aside and look cause using violence is wrong ??

 

Was it wrong to use violence to stop hitler aswell ? All these brave men that used violence to stop the nazis had a unfortunate childhood or brain damages ?

 

No, sadly I don't speak Swedish, but if you're happy to use English, perhaps we can continue.  Saying "I disagree" is about opinion.  Saying "Wrong" suggests it's about facts.  I know we disagree, but if you think I'm wrong about facts, I would ask you to explain.

 

The difference of opinion about the man who was killed is about whether he was the victim or the attacker.  The police account shows them as responding to an attack, behaving properly, and the death being an unfortunate accident.  It is important to remember that the police have already lied.  They said he was taken to hospital in an ambulance, and died there.  In fact someone took photos of the body bag being loaded into a car, because he was dead already.  When the photos were shown, the police changed their story.  I think it's fair to assume it was only the photos that made them do so, and otherwise they would have continued to lie.

 

I think at that point most reasonable people would decide that as the police have lied about some parts of the story, apparently in an attempt to put themselves in a better light, then it is quite possible they might be lying about other parts of the story as well.  Don't you think so?

 

To answer your question about what I would have done: I would have found out whether there was a risk to the occupants of the house, by asking them, and demanding to speak to each of them face to face.  I would have assessed the conflicting stories given by the youths and the man.  I would have checked for any previous reports, either of violence by the man, or of harassment by the youths, because that might throw some light on what's happening.  I would have proceeded without using weapons as the first option.  And if I had **** up and killed someone through my own stupidity and excitability, I hope I would have the courage to admit it, and not make up some stupid story to cover up my fatal mistake.

 

On your last point, you seem to be confusing "Why are some people more violent than others?" with "Can it ever be right to use violence?".  Do I really need to say that these are completely different things?

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peterms Newbie

peterms

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Two things, though:

You weren't there so you don't know if the police were telling lies or not. They might have, but just because the media says so doesn't mean it's the truth. Swedish media ain't better than any other media in the world. Then again, saying one thing first and the another isn't really going to work in their favour.

 

And just because the woman says that she wasn't threatened by her late husband doesn't mean she wasn't. I know, that might sound like, I don't know, well, absurd. Who would you believe if not herself? What I'm trying to say is that it might of course be true too, probably even likely, but a very close female friend of mine and I talk a lot about those things. Abused and terrorised women. Her friends have been beaten by boyfriends, she's been psycholigically abused by her ex and she's worked voluntarely with women who's been abused and been to several classes about this very subject. I couldn't find the right word right now so classes has to do. Seminars? Anyway, unless you don't know about this stuff already I think you'd be surprised by how a surpressed, beaten and psychologically abused woman can still defend her man. Many of them are so scared and broken that they don't dare to say anything bad about them. And even if he's dead, they might defend him, not to forget that he might have a family that she fears. This is just hypothetically and it might very well be just the police who **** it up and killed an innocent man, but I won't be so sure of it just because the media says so.

 

And I can also have missed something that really makes me look like the fool I am. :)

 

Yes, I agree it's common for women who are being abused to change their stories when the police arrive, just like anyone else in a position where they might still be subject to intimidation and control.  Partly for that reason, we expect the police to be able to assess situations and make judgements.  We always have done.  We also expect, and we always have done, that their judgements will be reasonable, sensible, mature, and based on evidence, not daft ideas based on panic or prejudice.  That's part of what we see as the skill of the job, one of the reasons why you can't just take someone off the street and have them being a top-performing policeman in a matter of days.

 

It's a simple fact that the police were telling lies about where the man died, as far as I can see.  I assume that's a disciplinary offence which can lead to dismissal or prosecution or both.  Serious stuff.  That makes it highly likely that other parts of the story will also be false.

 

From what I've read, though, the case wasn't a callout for "domestic violence".  Wasn't the issue the nuisance being caused by the youths?

 

But you know what strikes me about this whole story?  I've read about 15 accounts of what happened to cause this man to be shot dead in his own home by police.  And I still don't know his name.

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Pelle Rising Star

Pelle

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Posted

Don't really know. Read and heard lots of different stories about it. I've heard it was because the wife was in supposed danger. The youth story. I might need to check with my brother. He might have some inside info, he might not.

 

The whole thing is tragic. But the most urging thing is to come to a conclusion why these things happens and to stop it before they happen again. I think we can agree on that. I maintain that the connection between the police and the population in different areas needs to get better. Some feel protected by the police, some feel threatened by the same. And why is that? Poverty is probably the foundation. In both ways. I mean, in these areas many people are poor and unemployed. And some do crimes just to survive, other are members of gangs to feel a connection with people. Couldn't find a better word for that either. And some are just living there trying their best to get on with their lives. The police on the other hand can probably too easily put all in the same group and judge them as criminals. They're humans like you and I, but as you say they should be trained to be better in these circumstances. And I think most are, but not all. And at the same time, polices working in such areas might feel at unease when they're patrolling there. Finger on the trigger, sts. Might be understandable too. They probably should talk and inform more with the people and it might get better, but some will always see them as enemies. I've lived in such an area not long ago and even though I never felt threatened that much I have a few experiences that just tells me that some won't get better. Times that I've just felt that it's pointless to even try to talk to some.

 

It's a whole mess all of it. And there won't ever be one single truth or one single cause to all this. I'm just very annoyed that these things happens and in the end, whilst some might do wrong it's for me never a reason enough to go berserk and trash things on the streets. Well, unless you're trying to start a revolution against a dictatorship, but that's a whole other thing.

 

And one last thing before I go to work is that most of us swedes are fairly good in english, but sometimes it's hard to find the right words and expressions and it's easy to get frustrated when you can't put through what you really mean. Or as a professor once said to a friend of mine who wanted to write an essay in english: "Remember that when you speak in your second language you get about 10% more stupid." :)

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tomaspg Rookie

tomaspg

Posted
Posted

this riot just seems like a copy of the ones in london a while back, vaguely started because of something the police did, but in reality just a bunch of kids/youths who like to cause trouble because they can. poverty boredom unemployment etc etc etc!

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Ikantcpell Newbie

Ikantcpell

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Well wrong means..i think that you are wrong in what you are saying,i do not agree with you okey ? English is not my first language and i dont speak it fluenty so it would be much easier for me if i could write in my first language..Perhaps you understand swedish ?

 

First of all that man was out threatening people with his machete or let's say it was a knife..dosent make much difference,it's a lethal weapon anyway..alot of people called the police,the police came to the scene asked the man to come out of his home..the man refused to do so,and after a while the police decided to enter the man's home,when the first police enter the man comes running against the police with a machete/knife the police fears for his own life and shoots the man...what would you have done if you were that police man ??

 

These poeple you are talking about with the unfortunate childhoods and brain injurys are the ones throwing the stones and setting fire to cars and causing damages for millions and millions....so what do you suggest we do to fix the problem ? you just think that the police shall stand aside and look cause using violence is wrong ??

 

Was it wrong to use violence to stop hitler aswell ? All these brave men that used violence to stop the nazis had a unfortunate childhood or brain damages ?

 

No, sadly I don't speak Swedish, but if you're happy to use English, perhaps we can continue.  Saying "I disagree" is about opinion.  Saying "Wrong" suggests it's about facts.  I know we disagree, but if you think I'm wrong about facts, I would ask you to explain.

 

The difference of opinion about the man who was killed is about whether he was the victim or the attacker.  The police account shows them as responding to an attack, behaving properly, and the death being an unfortunate accident.  It is important to remember that the police have already lied.  They said he was taken to hospital in an ambulance, and died there.  In fact someone took photos of the body bag being loaded into a car, because he was dead already.  When the photos were shown, the police changed their story.  I think it's fair to assume it was only the photos that made them do so, and otherwise they would have continued to lie.

 

I think at that point most reasonable people would decide that as the police have lied about some parts of the story, apparently in an attempt to put themselves in a better light, then it is quite possible they might be lying about other parts of the story as well.  Don't you think so?

 

To answer your question about what I would have done: I would have found out whether there was a risk to the occupants of the house, by asking them, and demanding to speak to each of them face to face.  I would have assessed the conflicting stories given by the youths and the man.  I would have checked for any previous reports, either of violence by the man, or of harassment by the youths, because that might throw some light on what's happening.  I would have proceeded without using weapons as the first option.  And if I had **** up and killed someone through my own stupidity and excitability, I hope I would have the courage to admit it, and not make up some stupid story to cover up my fatal mistake.

 

On your last point, you seem to be confusing "Why are some people more violent than others?" with "Can it ever be right to use violence?".  Do I really need to say that these are completely different things?

 

 

You would have assessed the conflicting stories given by the youths and the man ? yes the police wanted to do that aswell but the man refused to come out and speak with them and when the police went in he attacked them with a machete/knife..sigh

 

And you didn't answer my question...How should they solve the problem ? You have tried to talk with them and all you get back is a stone in the head..you seems to think it's a good idea just to stand their and look while these scum run havoc and cause damages for millions..should the police just go home and let them burn up the neighbourhood cause it's wrong to use violence to stop it ? plz explain how this situation could be stopped as fast as possible.

 

Some people are just pure evil,if you try being nice to them they will see you as weak and attack you,they wont listen to you when you try to talk with them,I see it in my work evry week and the only way to deal with these people is to be ruthless!

 

Wouldnt it be nice if all just could get along and treat eachother with respect,but sadly the world dosent work like that.

Edited by Ikantcpell
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