Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend dead

[peterms]

Hmmm not so sure. Culpable homicide can mean just a fine and / or a suspended sentence.

Any normal person they'd have thrown away the key

 

Something here on that:

 

 

What would the sentence be if Pistorius were convicted of the lesser charge of culpable homicide?

If Pistorius is convicted of culpable homicide, no minimum sentencing legislation would be triggered. "Courts are able to exercise their complete and ordinary discretion," Grant said.

This means, theoretically, Pistorius could get a non-custodial sentence if convicted of culpable homicide. Grant said there had been examples of people killing a loved one accidentally where they had avoided jail.

If, however, the court took a view that Pistorius had been grossly negligent, Grant said, he would guess the runner could be jailed for up 15 years.

 

It is hard to imagine a finding of accidental killing, when someone fires four bullets through the door of a room 1.1m x 1.4m.  If the court were to accept that he thought it was someone other than Reeva, surely they must also conclude either that he meant to kill the person or was wholly indifferent as to whether he did.

 

I gather he's not claiming self-defence - is that right?

[Condimentalist]

Unless I'm missing something - or South African law is very different to British - he's absolutely guilty of murder. Whether he thought it was his girlfriend or not is immaterial. Shooting numerous times at somebody when they're on the toilet ain't self defense by anyone's standards, surely???

[CI]

Wonder why she didn't hide just left or right of the door frame against the wall ?

Was it she wasn't expecting him to actually shoot at her ? Wonder how quickly the 4 shots were fired ?

If its a semi auto pistol those shots could have gone off more or less instantly

[peterms]

Unless I'm missing something - or South African law is very different to British - he's absolutely guilty of murder. Whether he thought it was his girlfriend or not is immaterial. Shooting numerous times at somebody when they're on the toilet ain't self defense by anyone's standards, surely???

 

Something here on defending yourself against attack. 

 

...Various requirements must be met before the defensive act will be considered lawful. The attack must be:

• commenced or imminent;
• against a legally recognised interest; and
• unlawful.

The action made in defence must be:

• necessary to avert the attack;
• reasonable in terms of the amount of force used; and
• directed against the attacker.

Thus, the action taken must be in response to a currently pending aggressive action, and the law specifically rules out any action being taken, on the one hand, pre-emptively or, on the other, in ‘revenge’.

 

SA law apparently used to be more lenient towards property owners killing people if they didn't like the cut of their jib.  I would imagine that was pretty much exclusively whites killing bleks, though.

[Rodders]

Having just got back from watching Django 4 shots through a door now seems perfectly reasonable....

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

That jump from there is someone in my bathroom to I'll shoot at them four times seems to have happened rather quickly and without much cause other than paranoia on Pistorius' part.

 

Taking that into account, it couldn't be culpable homocide. One warning shot which strays and hits the intruder, you could argue, but four shots in quick succession when there was no threat (it was Reeva, afterall, there wasn't a burglar threatening him) just can't, can't be accidental. He appears to have meant to kill the person at the other side of the door and that is murder, regardless of who he thought it was.

[peterms]

Wonder why she didn't hide just left or right of the door frame against the wall ?

Was it she wasn't expecting him to actually shoot at her ? Wonder how quickly the 4 shots were fired ?

If its a semi auto pistol those shots could have gone off more or less instantly

 

The court was told that one shot was fired from further away, and three at close range.  This from the location of the cartridge cases, though since it sounds like the world and his wife were wandering around the scene after the event, I imagine they want to see some ballistics evidence before coming to a firm view.

[AndyM3000]

If it was an intruder that he shot he would get let off though wouldn't he?

[peterms]

If it was an intruder that he shot he would get let off though wouldn't he?

 

Did you read even this page?

[AndyM3000]

No I read like the last 3 posts. There's 24 pages, I have things to do, sorry.

[peterms]

If you'd read the last 4, your question was answered.

[AndyM3000]

So it was, next time I will the last 4 posts before commenting on a subject.  Ty.

[peterms]

So it was, next time I will the last 4 posts before commenting on a subject.  Ty.

 

You may need to read even more than four.  I know it's tedious.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. 

[AndyM3000]

There should be cliff notes edited on the first post of long threads like this. Would save many hours, most of them working hours I presume. 

[peterms]

There should be cliff notes edited on the first post of long threads like this. Would save many hours, most of them working hours I presume. 

 

You volunteering to do that?

[Meath_Villan]

Ok to summarize national hero shoots his wife 4 times on the shitter....that is undeniable its a question of how guilty is he ...as in was it indeed an accident or did he get a fit of roid rage and give her the valentines gift of a lifetime .....the prosecution is all over the shop at the moment but may not be playing all the evidence just yet while Oscar walks out on bail  

[peterms]

Ok to summarize national hero shoots his wife 4 times on the shitter....that is undeniable its a question of how guilty is he ...as in was it indeed an accident or did he get a fit of roid rage and give her the valentines gift of a lifetime .....the prosecution is all over the shop at the moment but may not be playing all the evidence just yet while Oscar walks out on bail  

 

Excellent!  The position is yours.

 

I'm afraid it's unpaid.

[Meath_Villan]

Ok to summarize national hero shoots his wife 4 times on the shitter....that is undeniable its a question of how guilty is he ...as in was it indeed an accident or did he get a fit of roid rage and give her the valentines gift of a lifetime .....the prosecution is all over the shop at the moment but may not be playing all the evidence just yet while Oscar walks out on bail  

 

Excellent!  The position is yours.

 

I'm afraid it's unpaid.

scheisse

[chappy]

Sorry Swerbs but you can't have both. Either he intended to kill in which case its murder, or he didn't intend to kill in which case its manslaughter/cupable homicide. Regardless of the cock ups with the investigation he was always going to get bail in those circumstances.

 

I don't know if this is the case in South African law or not, but as far as I'm aware here, the mens rea (thought process behind an action, including intent) for murder is the same for murder as it is for GBH. So even if you don't intend to kill someone, if you intend to harm them enough you can be done for murder, and I imagine shooting someone four times counts as this. Interesting that he has not claimed self defence, although I imagine the prosecution would rip this to pieces seeing as the door was locked.

[CI]

Cliff notes, I like.