The Randy Lerner thread

[sharkyvilla]

You told me what we shouldn't have done not what we should have. It's so easy to be negative give realistic detailed plans what should have been done when MON left.

Before that he did what he felt best to break the top 4 realised it wasn't going to happen and that it he rolled the dice, lost and redrew the plans and because of that MON walked we all know this so it is about the point he left plans from there please.

We should have addressed the wage bill, made sensible, slow cuts and hired a better manager.

Look at the wages houllier and McLeish added to an already high wage bill.

I agree villabromsgrove all that matters is what happens today and the future as the past is gone.

Haha this is what I mean when mistakes that have really effected us are just shrugged off.

I think we were hampered by the timing of O'Neill's resignation. It was immediately before the start of the season I think which made finding the right manager difficult because most of the ones who had jobs had gone through the bother of preseason and the transfer window. It also meant Houllier had to wait until January to get the players in, by which time he had alienated half the squad, half were injured and results were poor, meaning we had a very expensive January window indeed. I have a bit of sympathy with Lerner on this. The McLeish decision was a baffling gamble with the good will of the hardcore fans, not to mention his history of anti-football and relegation. We might not have had to make these decisions if O'Neill had been willing to work under the financial constraints rather than walk out. I still don't know why he wouldn't do it, that's a part of showing managerial skill as developing a team to push for Champions League. But that's up to him - seeing how his career has gone, I wonder if he regrets it.

But that's in the past and I still back most of the decisions Lerner has made since Lambert came to the club. I'm not a season ticket holder though so I don't have to pay to watch us being painfully bad at home every other week. I can understand how frustrating that must be but looking 12 months ahead I literally can only see us being better now Lambert is ready to buy ready-made players rather than squad-filler.

[sne]

The number of...

[Big_John_10]

John we have addressed the wage bill, hired an appropriate manager for the job and slow cuts weren't an option as we were losing way too much money. As for Hutton, N'Zogbia and Given only the former and the later were dumb decisions that people could have predicted before signing them. I believe AMC was brought in to take the flack of cuts if honest.

Hindsight is wonderful.

As for mistakes shrugged off, what would you prefer we all wallow in self pity or sort it out?

Slow cuts would have been an option after MON left. Two more years of stupid mistakes meant we needed drastic action when Lambert came.

Nothing to do with hindsight. I and others felt houllier was a mistake and everyone knew McLeish was as well.

Don't have to wallow in self pity but at the same time I don't know why you'd jump to his defence.

[sexbelowsound]

I think a lot of the issues with Lerner's management of the club could have been alleviated simply by coming out at the end of O'Niell's reign, or whenever he decided to start drastically cutting costs, and just telling the fans, openly and honestly, what his plans were and why.

 

I think that if Lerner had come out said that the '5 year plan' hadn't quite worked and now we are going to have to get the wage budget back under control and cut our cloth accordingly I personally would have been much more supportive knowing how and why this was being done. Provided of course that he set out a clear plan for the future. Something along the lines of, once the wage budget is back under control the club will push on again.

[Big_John_10]

I really do think its his decision making that's cost him with a lot of fans.

Look at the fees and wages we've paid out over the last 4 years.

I honestly think if he had appointed the right manager after MON and spent exactly the same amount of money over these last 4 years we wouldn't have dropped anywhere near to the level we currently have.

But he **** up, we've allowed clubs to catch us and over take us and who knows what our future ambition is now?

[suttonpaul]

John,

 

The drastic action started as soon as MON left! Think of all the players who left BEFORE Lambert got the job.

 

Slow cuts would have meant two things

 

1, Huge losses would have continued

2, We wouldn't be FFP compliant.

 

 

Sexbelowsound,

 

That is a lack of communication all fans would like rectified but it has been obvious for the last 2 and a half of the 3 and half seasons since MON left that was the plan.

[suttonpaul]

Also John it's about moving forward not looking back and it has been for a couple of years now not defending.

[terrytini]

 

That would lead me back to the question no one would answer previously what SHOULD have been done, how would it have been paid for and how would it fit with FFP?

Well hiring two awful managers and adding average players on huge contracts was a very stupid decision when we acknowledged our wages were an issue after finishing 6th.

If we'd addressed the problem properly and with a better manager (don't forget we'd just finished 6th and I'm sure offeree houllier a good wage) we would not have dropped as much.

We had an issue and we spent two more years making that issue much worse because of the owners decisions.

 

I agree with all of this.

 

There is no doubt RL has made mistakes  - big ones - and it has cost us.

 

The only point I have tried to make in this regard is that on the whole we are statistically no different to we have ever been - and that remains a true fact. 

 

Dont know what you meant about the stats being less relevant to people who actually go rather than watch on TV.  I, and many, do both, and it is no less awful wherever you are when things dont go well - but over Ellis time we had a load of old rubbish a lot of the time, so my point is that it isn't really anything new.  Even the record points total is just the new record, before the record would have been under somone who isn't RL so what ?

 

I dont have a lot to say in favour of RL, but people need to see that for years  - for ever t oall intents and purposes - we have fluctuated up and down the League and averaged 10th, and still do.  That isn't opinion is it ?

 

It isn't an argument in favour of Randy, or against.  It isn't accepting the status Quo  - and it isn't 'lowered expectations' - except as against the early days of RL.  It is saying 50 points, 10 th place , a good cup run every 5 or 6 years or so, is what the record books actually show WE ARE.

 

I would love it to be more, and to have been more, but it is what it is.

[Pilchard]

I wish we were that

[Big_John_10]

John,

The drastic action started as soon as MON left! Think of all the players who left BEFORE Lambert got the job

Ireland, given, makoun, bent, Hutton and nzogbia.

That's around £280,000 per week in wages that we added to an already struggling wage bill.

That's not drastic action really is it?

[Big_John_10]

I dont have a lot to say in favour of RL, but people need to see that for years - for ever t oall intents and purposes - we have fluctuated up and down the League and averaged 10th, and still do. That isn't opinion is it ?

My point was that while that might be true its a lot different having the odd good year, the odd bad year and a lot of average years compared to a few good years in a row followed by a few awful years in a row.

While the average may be similar we've rayear had a period like the last 4 year and in terms of home form we're actually witnessing the worst in the clubs history.

[Big_John_10]

Also John it's about moving forward not looking back and it has been for a couple of years now not defending.

Well it certainly seems like defending him. I don't think while he's still at the club and the future plans are unsure that he should be exempt from critisicm.

[TRO]

Who gives a feck about Spuds?

....The point, that's all.

[TRO]

A story...

Little Randy asked his mum, his sister and his aunt for some football boots. "Mum, I really want to get these, they look so cool and are on offer."

"Ok Randy" came the reply from his mum, sister and aunt, who all gave him some money to borrow from their purse, so he could get the football boots he really wanted.

"You have to pay this back Randy, make sure you save money from your paper round so you can pay us back next year" chirped Randy's mum, delighted at seeing her boy so happy.

Randy made his way down town, excited that he could finally live his dream by buying this pair of football boots. The boots were shiny claret with a hint of blue - and back in the day these boots had been the best one's around. Randy wanted to make them popular again, he wanted to make these the best boots in the land.

The next week, little Randy arrived at football practise for the first time - he was welcomed with open arms by those who supported the club - and people loved his new boots. Randy was so excited by the thought of everybody loving the boots, he decided that instead of putting aside the money from his paper round, he would buy a pair of boots for each of the other members of the football team. Randy knew this would make him popular - and would also increase the popularity of the boots.

After a few months, the team were playing really well, the players were enjoying having new football boots - instead of the old ragged ones supplied by the old club secretary.

Randy came home after losing in a cup final one weekend and was welcomed by his mum "Randy, do you have the money you saved, we agreed you would pay us back, remember Randy?" asked his mum.

Randy looked down at the floor, he realised he could not pay his family back the money he owed, because he hadn't planned very well. He knew he couldn't get the money back and he had spent all of the money he had made on his paper round, buying boots for the rest of the team.

Randy burst into tears, he ran upstairs and hid in his bedroom, ignoring all communication with his former team-mates, with the exception of two or three phone calls each week.

Randy wrote a letter to his team mates, asking for all the boots back - but they were not good enough and had to be thrown away, nobody wanted to buy these boots - no matter how much Randy believed people would want them.

"You have been really naïve Randy" said his mum, "did you really think a magical fairy would leave money under your bed to pay back your family?"

Randy shook his head, before looking down at his feet, "Sorry Mom, I just didn't think that far ahead".

What a wonderful story.....the only difference in the real story was Randy didn't buy the players someone else made that decision...he just allowed them too....it's called empowerment.

(So perhaps in your rendition, you should have made provision for another person who bought the boots?)

Had he of stopped O'Neill, Houllier and McLeish he would have been accused of interfering., in the same way uncle Herbert was ...obviously when it was clear we had bought shite ....he had to interfer.

Just wonder how Faulkner seems to always be overlooked in this arguement.

Edited February 13, 2014 by TRO

[NurembergVillan]

2, We wouldn't be FFP compliant.

 

Why do people keep referencing this?  It only counts for European competition and we're absolutely miles away from even the Europa League now.  It's completely irrelevant.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

 

2, We wouldn't be FFP compliant.

 

Why do people keep referencing this?  It only counts for European competition and we're absolutely miles away from even the Europa League now.  It's completely irrelevant.

 

 

It does apply to the Premier League, but the limit is much higher at £105m and the punishment is just a points deduction.

[villabromsgrove]

 

 

2, We wouldn't be FFP compliant.

 

Why do people keep referencing this?  It only counts for European competition and we're absolutely miles away from even the Europa League now.  It's completely irrelevant.

 

 

It does apply to the Premier League, but the limit is much higher at £105m and the punishment is just a points deduction.

 

Paul and Messi are correct, the Premier league have an additional agreement which regulates premiership club's spending. It started this season so we are now being scrutinised.

[NurembergVillan]

Fair enough - I completely apologise!

[Villarocker]

John,

 

The drastic action started as soon as MON left! Think of all the players who left BEFORE Lambert got the job.

 

Slow cuts would have meant two things

 

1, Huge losses would have continued

2, We wouldn't be FFP compliant.

 

 

Sexbelowsound,

 

That is a lack of communication all fans would like rectified but it has been obvious for the last 2 and a half of the 3 and half seasons since MON left that was the plan.

No offence but your surname isn't Faulkner, is it? ;-)

[Big_John_10]

but it has been obvious for the last 2 and a half of the 3 and half seasons since MON left that was the plan.

Not sure how you can say that. The transfers under Lambert and McLeish are 100% different in terms of the types of players and the wages given out.