The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

What would you rather?

Top 6 football, European football and the odd cup win with Doug?

Or midtable nothingness with Lerner?

I'd be surprised if anyone chose option 2 because winning and finishing high in the league is what football is all about.

[TrentVilla]

Why oh why do we have to bring Ellis into it time and time again.

[Guest]

Have to agree, being competitive is what it is about for me. We haven't been this way since 2010.

[Big_John_10]

Why oh why do we have to bring Ellis into it time and time again.

I think it's natural to mention him.

Just like lambert will be spoke about in comparison to past managers and players will be spoke about in comparison to past players.

[HeyAnty]

Why oh why do we have to bring Ellis into it time and time again.

I think it's natural to mention him.

Just like lambert will be spoke about in comparison to past managers and players will be spoke about in comparison to past players.

Why dont you compare it to the 1897 double winning side? Football in that era has nearly as much relevance to current football as football had in Dougs Time. Everything has changed now and its virtually impossible to compete for top 4. If Doug was chairman now i've no doubt we would be down there with wolves in the 1st division Edited May 21, 2013 by HeyAnty

[TRO]

Martin O'Neill came close to champions league football... my arse.

6th place 3 times in a row and each season we were closer to 4th spot, with his final season finishing 6 points off 4th.

Surely you saying that is like someone saying "we came close to relegation the last two years....my arse".

Which would just be plain wrong.

I don't use the league table as the fixer of all ills and the case in question I did not buy Martin o'neills brand of football. I was never sold on his brand like some folk was. I felt there was area's of the team that was good and others that simply struggled to show any kind of control or guile.

The fact that we have been worse since he left has no testimony to the arguement.. As they say two wrongs don't make a right.

Paul lambert is still a long way off getting us to respectability in terms of league table position, however the form guide will argue with that and the passing and movement gives indications we are getting better.

We have players now on the way up, as opposed to on the way down in terms of their individual development, so it is fair to say the indicators are good.

Anyone who witnessed the Saunders years, despite the difference in era, will draw parallels and identify the similarities.

Nothing is guaranteed in football, but in my view the signs are good.

[sharkyvilla]

What would you rather?

Top 6 football, European football and the odd cup win with Doug?

Or midtable nothingness with Lerner?

I'd be surprised if anyone chose option 2 because winning and finishing high in the league is what football is all about.

 

Why choose those 2 options?  Under Lerner we had 3 top 6 finishes, a cup final and two semi finals.  Hopefully because we gambled by not gambling in January, Lambert will have a clean slate to work with as we make our way back up the league again.  Randy has tried to correct the mistakes of the past where he let the managers write off tens of millions of his money on utter shite, that is all I ask for at the moment.

[markavfc40]

I am really not sure where we are as a club at the moment.

 

I am 39 years old and have followed us for as far back as I can remember but the heady days of 81 and 82 are just very vague memories. Therefore for almost the whole time I have supported Aston Villa I have seen us as massive under achievers. Many things that other clubs could only dream of we have in place. A fantastic history, a great stadium and training facilities and biggest club in around an 80 mile radius.

 

I'd imagine we have one of the top 6 - 8 fan bases in the country with the undoubted potential to attract many more but attendances often don't reflect this. I put this down to a lack of ambition. We have shown under Lerner that even with a whiff of potential success we can attract big crowds. In 07/08 we had average crowds of over 40k. We finished 6th. Again very similar crowds in 08/09. This wasn't at a time of winning trophies or competing for the league title. This was simply being competitive and showing a little ambition.

 

There is massive potential at this club and it is being wasted. You can't buy what we have. The history, the tradition, the mentality of our fan base that is ingrained and has been passed down from generation to generation that means that despite a lack of modern day success we still believe that this club should be competing with the best.

 

I believe in Lambert we have someone that has the potential to at the very least make us competitive again in the upper third of the league. Some may disagree. In Lerner however I no longer believe we have a chairman willing to back his manager to do that and I doubt many would disagree with that.

 

We can all argue the toss of how the money was spent during O'Neills time and that so and so players were being paid way over the odds. The most startling fact from that time is though that whilst finishing sixth three times on the spin we had the eighth, sixth and sixth highest wage bill and couldn't sustain that level. Whichever way you slice the cake to compete at a level that I certainly believe this club should be you are eventually going to have to pay a level of wages that reflects that position. Lerner for whatever reason was unable to get income up to a level to sustain paying wages that reflected a club finishing in the top 6 and that for me is his biggest failing along with a couple of very poor managerial choices. He corrected the managerial mistakes I am though not at all confident he will correct the other failing.

Edited May 22, 2013 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

Excellent post that.

 

Lerner has failed not only as our chairman but as a business man and I've seen nothing from him to suggest either will change.

[Cliffy Biro]

Not even the hiring of lambert has restored my faith in lerner, clearly not as interested as he once was and i doubt many people would be shocked to see him sell up in the next few years.

[smetrov]

 

 

We can all argue the toss of how the money was spent during O'Neills time and that so and so players were being paid way over the odds. The most startling fact from that time is though that whilst finishing sixth three times on the spin we had the eighth, sixth and sixth highest wage bill and couldn't sustain that level. Whichever way you slice the cake to compete at a level that I certainly believe this club should be you are eventually going to have to pay a level of wages that reflects that position. Lerner for whatever reason was unable to get income up to a level to sustain paying wages that reflected a club finishing in the top 6 and that for me is his biggest failing along with a couple of very poor managerial choices. He corrected the managerial mistakes I am though not at all confident he will correct the other failing.

 

I agree. Whilst we aren't we the richest club in the league - I really don't why the likes of stoke, sunderland, newcastle, west ham can blow us out of the water in the transfer market.

 

Of course the flaw with the young and hungry approach - is that players won't stay at villa on 25kpw - when everyone else is paying £40kpw

[HeyAnty]

We can all argue the toss of how the money was spent during O'Neills time and that so and so players were being paid way over the odds. The most startling fact from that time is though that whilst finishing sixth three times on the spin we had the eighth, sixth and sixth highest wage bill and couldn't sustain that level. Whichever way you slice the cake to compete at a level that I certainly believe this club should be you are eventually going to have to pay a level of wages that reflects that position. Lerner for whatever reason was unable to get income up to a level to sustain paying wages that reflected a club finishing in the top 6 and that for me is his biggest failing along with a couple of very poor managerial choices. He corrected the managerial mistakes I am though not at all confident he will correct the other failing.

I agree. Whilst we aren't we the richest club in the league - I really don't why the likes of stoke, sunderland, newcastle, west ham can blow us out of the water in the transfer market.

Of course the flaw with the young and hungry approach - is that players won't stay at villa on 25kpw - when everyone else is paying £40kpw

Yes this is what im scared of. You will get so far then good players will want to leave and play in CL if they are good enough. Perfect example is Bentekke this summer. We are scared we will loose him after he played really well for a season. And if the player says they want to go there is F all the club can do as we found out over the past 5 years.

But there is no alternative, we tried the other approach under MON and it put us in massive debt

[TRO]

We had clubs blowing us out of the water during Ron Saunders reign, but that didn't stop us from achieving.

Man utd went 25years with winning relatively nothing, prior to ferguson,whilst still being one of the biggest clubs in the world.

It's all about opinions, but in my view, it's all about managers.

Sure you need money, but it's how you spend it for me.

[TRO]

I'm simply not as convinced as some, that Lerner is a bad egg.

I believe he has made mistakes for sure and subsequently austerity measures have had to be implemented,to correct those mistakes.

Hey for all intents and purposes, it's his money.

Both the ground, body moor and the holte pub have received investment and I don't know about you but despite scrapping the barrel in relative terms , I was ashamed when I walked past the holte pub in hde's tenure.

We have bought some duffers with randy's doe..... Hopefully moving forward, he will gain confidence in Lamberts prudence and gradually release the necessary funds to compete.

Ask yourself this question

How many poor signings could Bill Kenwright have underwritten.... Not as many as Randy had to swallow.... But then, David Moyes never subjected him to that.

[smetrov]

We had clubs blowing us out of the water during Ron Saunders reign, but that didn't stop us from achieving.

Man utd went 25years with winning relatively nothing, prior to ferguson,whilst still being one of the biggest clubs in the world.

It's all about opinions, but in my view, it's all about managers.

Sure you need money, but it's how you spend it for me.

 

I would disagree - The Manu's Tottehams, could blow us out of the water. But not west ham, southampton, sunderland

[smetrov]

I'm simply not as convinced as some, that Lerner is a bad egg.

I believe he has made mistakes for sure and subsequently austerity measures have had to be implemented,to correct those mistakes.

Hey for all intents and purposes, it's his money.

Both the ground, body moor and the holte pub have received investment and I don't know about you but despite scrapping the barrel in relative terms , I was ashamed when I walked past the holte pub in hde's tenure.

 

 

 

 

What is his money ? 

 

Like I have said before, what is the point of a billionaire owner, who won't invest in the club ?

[TRO]

I'm simply not as convinced as some, that Lerner is a bad egg.

I believe he has made mistakes for sure and subsequently austerity measures have had to be implemented,to correct those mistakes.Hey for all intents and purposes, it's his money.

Both the ground, body moor and the holte pub have received investment and I don't know about you but despite scrapping the barrel in relative terms , I was ashamed when I walked past the holte pub in hde's tenure.

 

What is his money ? 

 

Like I have said before, what is the point of a billionaire owner, who won't invest in the club ?

But he has, we have just Wasted it.

[TRO]

We had clubs blowing us out of the water during Ron Saunders reign, but that didn't stop us from achieving.

Man utd went 25years with winning relatively nothing, prior to ferguson,whilst still being one of the biggest clubs in the world.

It's all about opinions, but in my view, it's all about managers.

Sure you need money, but it's how you spend it for me.

 

I would disagree - The Manu's Tottehams, could blow us out of the water. But not west ham, southampton, sunderland

So West Ham, Southampton and Sunderland have out flanked us in terms of the transfer market, despite us signing sunderlands prized asset Darren bent against their will and Southampton selling their prized assets in Walcott, bale and chamberlain, don' t remember lambert being a record breaking transfer fee despite his prolific scoring rate.

Would you really hold those teams up as the testimony to big Money signings being the holy grail ? Or am I misunderstanding you.

It's about prudence, not how deep your pockets are.

[MikeMcKenna]

There has been some debate about how often RL has been to VP this year. I was told by one of the Villa execs at the weekend that the last game he attended was the 0-3 defeat to Wigan but he couldn't recall if/when he had been to another game during the season. He said that Lerner was coming over sometime in the next 1-2 weeks.

IMO all the signs are that he would sell but due to the financial situation that is not going to happen in the next few years. In terms of whether he is good/ bad for Villa and whether a new owner would make a difference, for now I think it totally academic as it isn't going to happen.

Now that we have a manager with potential and a plan based on tight financial controls, beyond giving PL reasonable backing in the summer I think RL's role as the owner of our club is effectively to take an even further back seat. I doubt we will see much of him again next season UNLESS we start to excel. I think he now has a manager that he trusts and will let him get on with it - within set budgets.

[Big_John_10]

What would you rather?

Top 6 football, European football and the odd cup win with Doug?

Or midtable nothingness with Lerner?

I'd be surprised if anyone chose option 2 because winning and finishing high in the league is what football is all about.

 

Why choose those 2 options?  Under Lerner we had 3 top 6 finishes, a cup final and two semi finals.  Hopefully because we gambled by not gambling in January, Lambert will have a clean slate to work with as we make our way back up the league again.  Randy has tried to correct the mistakes of the past where he let the managers write off tens of millions of his money on utter shite, that is all I ask for at the moment.

Don't you think thats quite a low expectation to have of your owner? To correct a mistake. That should be the bare minimum of whaf any decent owner should do.

And the question was aimed at the minority that seem to put other things before actually winning. I'd be interested to know how much they truly value some of the other things.