The Randy Lerner thread

[bickster]

One things for sure, Lerner didnt buy Villa for a hobby. Hes a business man and he wants a profit. How he does this is anyones guess. Getting rid of high earners is a good start

Which businesses does the businessman own? He ceased to be a businessman some time ago

You think villa isnt a business to him? Sorry to burst your bubble but thats exactly what it is.

Sorry to burst yours but if Villa was a business it would have gone to the wall some time ago. It's debts are about twice the size of its value

What is it then?

A hobby gone wrong, ruined by some bad investments and a divorce

[Big_John_10]

There are none so blind.

What are we missing?

What you want to miss.

Ok.I think that could be probably be said about those who disagree with me also.

It could be, if both sides of the argument were making equal amounts of sense. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but they are not entitled to have it taken seriously. There are thousands of pages of discussion on here discussing the broader picture around why we finished where we did and why it won't happen next season. Those still moaning about our league position seem to be the ones with the narrowest field of vision, looking almost completely at the league table as the beginning and end of their argument because it is what fits their point of view. That's fine, but it's also utter bollocks IMHO.

Being critical of Lerner for how the clubs been run is utter bollocks? Being critical of Lerner for our last two years being our lowest ever points totals in the Prem is utter bollocks? I'd be interested to know why you think that.

Considering we wanted the last owner out when we were a comfortable premiership team I think criticism to our current owner for the low level he's taken the club is fully justified at the moment.

[Guest]

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

[BOF]

Being critical of Lerner for how the clubs been run is utter bollocks? Being critical of Lerner for our last two years being our lowest ever points totals in the Prem is utter bollocks? I'd be interested to know why you think that.

Considering we wanted the last owner out when we were a comfortable premiership team I think criticism to our current owner for the low level he's taken the club is fully justified at the moment.

Let's just see what the summer and next season brings. Then if it all pans out the way I think it will, those who were negative can just say "well that's all we ever wanted anyway".

[Risso]

 

Being critical of Lerner for how the clubs been run is utter bollocks? Being critical of Lerner for our last two years being our lowest ever points totals in the Prem is utter bollocks? I'd be interested to know why you think that.

Considering we wanted the last owner out when we were a comfortable premiership team I think criticism to our current owner for the low level he's taken the club is fully justified at the moment.

Let's just see what the summer and next season brings. Then if it all pans out the way I think it will, those who were negative can just say "well that's all we ever wanted anyway".

 

 

We'll see I suppose.  However, the fact that he didn't strengthen the team in January after a truly dismal first half to the year spoke volumes.  If we get to the end of next season intact, THEN he might start to spend money again as that's when the new TV money hits home and we'll hopefully have another few big earners off the books, but I wouldn't expect much this summer.

[Big_John_10]

Being critical of Lerner for how the clubs been run is utter bollocks? Being critical of Lerner for our last two years being our lowest ever points totals in the Prem is utter bollocks? I'd be interested to know why you think that.Considering we wanted the last owner out when we were a comfortable premiership team I think criticism to our current owner for the low level he's taken the club is fully justified at the moment.

Let's just see what the summer and next season brings. Then if it all pans out the way I think it will, those who were negative can just say "well that's all we ever wanted anyway".

What will the summer bring that we've never had before?

Like I said some seem to be happy because our current owner MIGHT try to take us to a level that under the last owner was deemed unacceptable. It just doesn't make sense.

I think lambert will probably be backed again. Am I supposed to be impressed with the owner when we're a midtable club? Is that why we desperately wanted Doug gone so we could live the dream of midtable football?

[Condimentalist]

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

[Risso]

 

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

 

 

We could have said that when Doug was still in charge.

[Condimentalist]

 

 

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

 

 

We could have said that when Doug was still in charge.

 

 

Not the same IMO. Fair enough if you feel differently, I can see arguments on both sides.

[Guest]

 

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

 

Or, we might actually get somebody who will benefit us, not put us in debt, not spend like a kid in a sweet shop, then raid his friends money jar because he didn't actually want all those sweets but can't get rid, somebody who will have a good long term plan which doesn't involve more cut backs than from a Conservative government.. 

 

In before the Venkys mention, I guess.

[bickster]

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

 

We could have said that when Doug was still in charge.

We'd have been relegated the very next season under Doug, we were only going in one direction.

I still much prefer Lerner to Ellis

[Condimentalist]

 

 

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

 

Or, we might actually get somebody who will benefit us, not put us in debt, not spend like a kid in a sweet shop, then raid his friends money jar because he didn't actually want all those sweets but can't get rid, somebody who will have a good long term plan which doesn't involve more cut backs than from a Conservative government.. 

 

In before the Venkys mention, I guess.

 

 

I think Lerner had a long term plan, but it failed, largely because it was relied too heavily on the auspices of MON, who isn't a long-term planner. It was an ambitious plan at the best of times, to get us into the Champions League, and to be fair to O'Neill we came close. The problem was that the cost was too high and couldn't be recouped because the players were average and they were on exorbitant salaries.

 

After a couple of years in the wilderness we're now on long-term plan no.2. It's a different sort of plan, more cautious and prudent, but it is, at least, being enacted by a long-term planner in Paul Lambert, and it shouldn't ruin the club if it goes belly up.

[Big_John_10]

We'd have been relegated the very next season under Doug, we were only going in one direction.

Maybe. We'd had bad seasons before under Doug and improved the following year. Should not be forgotten that the points total we had in that final year under Doug was higher than we've managed the last 2 years.

I still much prefer Lerner to Ellis

I'm not so sure. I think with his age it was time for a new owner but I think the premiership years under Doug were as good if not better than what we've seen under Lerner and I'm not sure Lerner will be able to achieve anything that we didn't achieve with Doug in charge. Edited May 21, 2013 by Big_John_10

[TRO]

 

 

 

He'll be gone soon IMHO. Cannot wait for that day.

 

I think we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

 

Or, we might actually get somebody who will benefit us, not put us in debt, not spend like a kid in a sweet shop, then raid his friends money jar because he didn't actually want all those sweets but can't get rid, somebody who will have a good long term plan which doesn't involve more cut backs than from a Conservative government.. 

 

In before the Venkys mention, I guess.

 

 

I think Lerner had a long term plan, but it failed, largely because it was relied too heavily on the auspices of MON, who isn't a long-term planner. It was an ambitious plan at the best of times, to get us into the Champions League, and to be fair to O'Neill we came close. The problem was that the cost was too high and couldn't be recouped because the players were average and they were on exorbitant salaries.

 

After a couple of years in the wilderness we're now on long-term plan no.2. It's a different sort of plan, more cautious and prudent, but it is, at least, being enacted by a long-term planner in Paul Lambert, and it shouldn't ruin the club if it goes belly up.

 

 

 

Martin O'Neill came close to champions league football...  my arse.

 

In terms of league position you may be edging towards a point,( but with the exception of one season we struggled to finish 6th) but in real terms of footballing substance we were light years away. half the team couldn't trap a bag of cement.It was as brittle as it could be good. There was little consistency and again the home record was not consistent for a team with champions league aspirations.

 

you cannot aspire to champions league football with "hoofball" the opposition defenders will eat you alive.

[TRO]

Lerner, was let down and subsequently went on to make his own mistakes.

 

Lambert , just needs some patience and a reasonable amount of money.

 

I think Lamaberts plan has a great deal of credence....Lerner needs to gain some confidence back that he has a manager that is on the right lines.

 

we'll be ok.

[Big_John_10]

Martin O'Neill came close to champions league football... my arse.

6th place 3 times in a row and each season we were closer to 4th spot, with his final season finishing 6 points off 4th.

Surely you saying that is like someone saying "we came close to relegation the last two years....my arse".

Which would just be plain wrong.

[Big_John_10]

we'll be ok.

Which because of how low we've dropped becoming just ok will no doubt be classed as some sort of achievement for Randy Lerner.

[blandy]

What will the summer bring that we've never had before?

Like I said some seem to be happy because our current owner MIGHT try to take us to a level that under the last owner was deemed unacceptable. It just doesn't make sense.

I think lambert will probably be backed again. Am I supposed to be impressed with the owner when we're a midtable club? Is that why we desperately wanted Doug gone so we could live the dream of midtable football?

I'm unsure what what an owner would need to do to impress you. If it's the club winning something, or finishing high up, then that's kind of fair enough as a way of looking at things. It's not the way I look at it, but each to their own, I guess.

For me, I try and look at the lie of the land, and always want to the club to do the best it can within it's means, within it's control. You (the owner) can't do anything about things outside your control.

So if a billionaire buys Man City, for example, there's little that Randy or any other owner can do about that. Outside our control.

I want the club to treat people well, and act with propriety. I want it to do all it can (in a recession) to generate the income it's capable of. I want good people appointed/kept in place and the bad 'uns rooted out.

I want a clean safe accessible ground with fair prices.

I want a manager and an ethos of good football, fair play and good conduct.

I want fans interests looked after, rather than being something to be milked for money.

I want the club to be a responsible part of the community.

I want the owner to be a good guy. I want his or her to be honest and open and respect the club, and look after it and preserve it for the future.

I want it to be competitive within it's means.

I absolutely don't want the club to be used as a means of advancing the owners personal ambitions for a place on the FA, or media interviews, or ego boosting.

I don't want it to be a cash-cow for the owner.

There's loads more.

Anyway, Randy ticks a lot of those boxes and misses others. Overall, as Bicks said earlier, I'd much prefer Randy to the previous Chairman. But for me it's far from all about league position. I'd absolutely love to win something - it's been far too long.

I do think that this season was like a big gamble to sort out the mess that had been built up, and it paid off, though for a long time I didn't think it would. I think credit is due for them sorting it out - to the manager, board and players and staff. If you're going to judge on results, then significant surgery, while preserving the (Premier league) "life". was a success, overall.

They absolutely can't either rest on their laurels, or go back to how it was, though.

We've got a manager who has a way of playing and philosophy that I like, overall. I like our players, now, too. This last season has been horrible at times, but the latter part has been (for me) a clear sign of a good direction and improvement from a rock bottom that can be traced back in it's causes to about 7 or 8 years ago, though many of them have been a lot more recent. The major one being a culture of short sighted short termism - both under Ellis and under Randy.

If we have a club that has a certain way, a plan that is self fulfilling and self regenerating right throughout, then that's something I'd very much appreciate. That should be about competing, playing the right way (or a right way), whilst not over-rewarding players, not ripping off fans, but generating hope and interest and respect and affection.

I'm not keen on Dave Whelan's politics or some of his publicity seeking, but I think for example that what Wigan have done is (for a much smaller club) the right way - they've punched way above their weight, developed players, looked after their fans, grown their fanbase, played the right way, developed their facilities and stuck with managers and had managers stick with them, all on the doorstep of Manchester and Liverpool. There's a version of that we can do.

I've gone a bit off topic, but for me there's more to look at than just the table or whatever.

[Risso]

My main wish is for Blandy to be able to quote something correctly.  About as likely as us winning the Premier League next season! 

[Big_John_10]

I'm unsure what what an owner would need to do to impress you. If it's the club winning something, or finishing high up, then that's kind of fair enough as a way of looking at things. It's not the way I look at it, but each to their own, I guess

Surely the whole point of competitive sport is to win.

That's what sport is, that's what competition is. It's the whole point of professional sports.

Being a midtable club with a chairman who ticks some of those boxes is no different to being a midtable team with an owner who doesn't tick those boxes IMO.

Who really leaves the ground after a loss and doesn't mind because the club is a responsible member of the community? Or who gets more enjoyment from a win because the club treats people well?

Fair enough if all those things you mention mean so much to you. Like you say each to their own.