Big_John_10 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 We should stop talking about MoN, it's been long enough since he left and there's plenty of other reasons the owner deserves criticism.having been a supporter since studying at Oxford or Cambridge Really? You really believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 but you cant though. both men are connected to the problems of the club whether you want to believe it or not (which I dont think you want to). Hell this summer is only summer we arent trying to flog his dross as their contracts are all gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 but you cant though. both men are connected to the problems of the club whether you want to believe it or not (which I dont think you want to). Hell this summer is only summer we arent trying to flog his dross as their contracts are all gone. How are they currently connected to our problems? And if Lerner hadn't **** up after MoN left we wouldn't be talking about any problems. That's the thing you and a few others just can't accept. Hiring two awful managers, wasting millions more on players (something some blame MoN soley for, funny how it continued two years after he left) and millions more on compensation correcting awful decisions are the main reasons we've struggled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm hearing we've lost around 33m for the financial year ending April 2013. With Lerner in charge we really are hemorrhaging a serious amount of money on a yearly basis and all just to see a team battling relegation. I want to know where you heard that because I don't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm hearing we've lost around 33m for the financial year ending April 2013. With Lerner in charge we really are hemorrhaging a serious amount of money on a yearly basis and all just to see a team battling relegation. That kind of puts to bed the nonsense that he doesnt spend any money. Problem is, he has total numpties spending it. Only that isn't really what those who are critical of him accuse him of, it is just what those who defend him like to suggest it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb82 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm hearing we've lost around 33m for the financial year ending April 2013. With Lerner in charge we really are hemorrhaging a serious amount of money on a yearly basis and all just to see a team battling relegation. I want to know where you heard that because I don't believe it. Without being "in the know" I actually think that figure would be about right. Through boredom/curiosity, I wanted to do piece based on "a year on" from the swiss ramble's "Prophets and losses" blog to see how we had progressed and to see what we could expect for this summer. Unfortunately due to work etc I haven't been able to get it finished (although am happy to email people the draft work in progress document in case it is of interest). But anyway back to the point... In the 2011/12 season Villa made a financial loss of £18m, and that includes sales profits of £20m (based on the figures quoted on the "Transfer League" website - assuming they are broadly accurate). In 2012/13 we then effectively made a loss of £23.7m on transfer fees (again based on the "Transfer League" website), resulting in a swing of -£43.7m, which assuming everything else stayed the same would put the accounts at -£61.7m. So with a reduction in wage (which I would not expect to be that significant as we bought in twice as many people as we sold/released - even if they are on a third of the wages), increase in matchday turnover (more games on tv, and an increase in average gate attendance) and other savings a loss of £33m is possible. In fact given the above it wouldn't surprise me is the loss was worse. Either way, Villa is lossing significant amounts of money and due to reduced operating turnover hasn't really improved the wage-turnover ratio. It may not actually be until this season (with the increased Sky money) we actually get close to breaking even. As I said am happy to send the document on, still needs a lot of work, and is v long, so I'm not sure how it would work as a post but am happy to if it would be of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. was it not Doug that appointed him? whatever it was giving him all that cash was a horrible idea but if he didnt people would be saying he never backed him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. On that basis probably the worst from his point of view was buying the club in the first place. After all he is pretty well damned, and has spent a couple of hundred million for the privilege of being so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. was it not Doug that appointed him? whatever it was giving him all that cash was a horrible idea but if he didnt people would be saying he never backed him It seems to depend on if people are trying to defend Lerner or not, it has frequently been argued that he did by those defending Lerner's record of appointing managers in the past. anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. On that basis probably the worst from his point of view was buying the club in the first place. After all he is pretty well damned, and has spent a couple of hundred million for the privilege of being so. Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted June 6, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. was it not Doug that appointed him? whatever it was giving him all that cash was a horrible idea but if he didnt people would be saying he never backed him It's all very boring but as has been said many times Ellis appointed him on Lerners behalf - but who gives a **** anymore? Everybody needs to move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 We definitely could have responded a hell of a lot better to things after MON left. I'm now looking at the situation at Everton with great interest, just lost a manager who consistently got them top 6/7 finishes. Can't quite see them falling down the league like we did once MON left, why? Their chairman is far more wise and astute than ours. First references to Martin Edwards and now we are lauding Kenwright. This thread should be renamed the 'rate a crap chairman' thread. Evertonians would give their collective right arms for an investor like Randy Lerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm hearing we've lost around 33m for the financial year ending April 2013. With Lerner in charge we really are hemorrhaging a serious amount of money on a yearly basis and all just to see a team battling relegation. I want to know where you heard that because I don't believe it. Without being "in the know" I actually think that figure would be about right. Through boredom/curiosity, I wanted to do piece based on "a year on" from the swiss ramble's "Prophets and losses" blog to see how we had progressed and to see what we could expect for this summer. Unfortunately due to work etc I haven't been able to get it finished (although am happy to email people the draft work in progress document in case it is of interest). But anyway back to the point... In the 2011/12 season Villa made a financial loss of £18m, and that includes sales profits of £20m (based on the figures quoted on the "Transfer League" website - assuming they are broadly accurate). In 2012/13 we then effectively made a loss of £23.7m on transfer fees (again based on the "Transfer League" website), resulting in a swing of -£43.7m, which assuming everything else stayed the same would put the accounts at -£61.7m. So with a reduction in wage (which I would not expect to be that significant as we bought in twice as many people as we sold/released - even if they are on a third of the wages), increase in matchday turnover (more games on tv, and an increase in average gate attendance) and other savings a loss of £33m is possible. In fact given the above it wouldn't surprise me is the loss was worse. Either way, Villa is lossing significant amounts of money and due to reduced operating turnover hasn't really improved the wage-turnover ratio. It may not actually be until this season (with the increased Sky money) we actually get close to breaking even. As I said am happy to send the document on, still needs a lot of work, and is v long, so I'm not sure how it would work as a post but am happy to if it would be of interest. Thank you, that's fine. Just your little explanation there has given me pause for thought. I'd be surprised if we're not breaking even as things stand today but I can absolutely see where that figure might come from over the past 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. was it not Doug that appointed him? whatever it was giving him all that cash was a horrible idea but if he didnt people would be saying he never backed him It seems to depend on if people are trying to defend Lerner or not, it has frequently been argued that he did by those defending Lerner's record of appointing managers in the past. anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain. On that basis probably the worst from his point of view was buying the club in the first place. After all he is pretty well damned, and has spent a couple of hundred million for the privilege of being so. Am I supposed to feel sorry for him? Nope, I wouldn't expect that, I was merely commenting on what was potentially a more worse decision than the one you presented. Commenting on the discussion, not to the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) anyway **** it about MON. he proved he was rubbish in his last job and if true best thing Randy did was sack the little gobshite And the worst then must be appointing him and allowing him to spunk millions of pounds on crap players and build up a wage bill the club couldn't sustain.On that basis probably the worst from his point of view was buying the club in the first place. After all he is pretty well damned, and has spent a couple of hundred million for the privilege of being so. Yes being such a **** up he probably shouldn't have. Edited June 6, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 We definitely could have responded a hell of a lot better to things after MON left. I'm now looking at the situation at Everton with great interest, just lost a manager who consistently got them top 6/7 finishes. Can't quite see them falling down the league like we did once MON left, why? Their chairman is far more wise and astute than ours. First references to Martin Edwards and now we are lauding Kenwright. This thread should be renamed the 'rate a crap chairman' thread. Evertonians would give their collective right arms for an investor like Randy Lerner Haha I notice you used the word investor. Why not say Evertonians would give their collective right arms for a chairman like Lerner? Could it be because they wouldn't give their collective right arms for a man who makes such poor decisions which have such massive effects on the club? Whose fault was it at the browns? Who was their version of MoN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Either way, Villa is lossing significant amounts of money and due to reduced operating turnover hasn't really improved the wage-turnover ratio What an owner. Oh well he tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 We definitely could have responded a hell of a lot better to things after MON left. I'm now looking at the situation at Everton with great interest, just lost a manager who consistently got them top 6/7 finishes. Can't quite see them falling down the league like we did once MON left, why? Their chairman is far more wise and astute than ours. First references to Martin Edwards and now we are lauding Kenwright. This thread should be renamed the 'rate a crap chairman' thread. Evertonians would give their collective right arms for an investor like Randy Lerner Haha I notice you used the word investor. Why not say Evertonians would give their collective right arms for a chairman like Lerner? Could it be because they wouldn't give their collective right arms for a man who makes such poor decisions which have such massive effects on the club? Whose fault was it at the browns? Who was their version of MoN? I wouldn't make him any worse a chairman than either Edwards or Kenwright, possibly better than both. Who's MoN?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I'm hearing we've lost around 33m for the financial year ending April 2013. With Lerner in charge we really are hemorrhaging a serious amount of money on a yearly basis and all just to see a team battling relegation. That kind of puts to bed the nonsense that he doesnt spend any money. Problem is, he has total numpties spending it. Only that isn't really what those who are critical of him accuse him of, it is just what those who defend him like to suggest it is. While my post was not directed at anybody in particular (More a social acceptance across the football world that Lerner has stopped spending), I totally disagree with your point. For me it is undeniable that people on here criticise Lerner for not spending enough and not backing his manager - especially during January. There are other reasons people are critical - but him tightening the purse strings is definitely one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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