Big_John_10 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The guy's not psychic and also can't see into the future. As a business man do you have to be psychic to look at the money coming in and the money going out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Do some people think last season was acceptable?!?!? Lerner has been a complete failure and an incompetent owner who should just get out. He allowed MON to spunk money on shit players. He should have known MON was useless. What about the lack of backing to Lambert. Why doesn't he give him more money? Doesn't he trust him? Useless. We spent far too much on shit under MON when we could have got younger hungry players for less. Now under Lambert we're spunking money on youth and inexperience, not the quality we need. Lerner will never make me happy unless we win the league, then I might stop moaning on and on and on and on and on repeating the same tired arguments over and over and over and over because I obviously have nothing else interesting to think about in my empty little life. Interesting. Nice personal dig at the end as well. Feel better? Why was that a personal dig? does the cap fit? Does it have to be to be considered a dig? Edited June 2, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pembers Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Do some people think last season was acceptable?!?!? Lerner has been a complete failure and an incompetent owner who should just get out. He allowed MON to spunk money on shit players. He should have known MON was useless. What about the lack of backing to Lambert. Why doesn't he give him more money? Doesn't he trust him? Useless. We spent far too much on shit under MON when we could have got younger hungry players for less. Now under Lambert we're spunking money on youth and inexperience, not the quality we need. Lerner will never make me happy unless we win the league, then I might stop moaning on and on and on and on and on repeating the same tired arguments over and over and over and over because I obviously have nothing else interesting to think about in my empty little life. The guy's not psychic and also can't see into the future. MoN was taking us places at the time so it would only be natural to back the manager with the necessary funds to progress further, it's hardly Lerner's fault that MoN spent the money on useless players. Sarcasm doesn't come across well over the internet. It does once you realise it's sarcasm. Your "like" was what raised the sarcasm alert for me. There have been so many serious posts like that (though not from Kingfisher) that it's hard to tell sometimes Alright, lets just forget I said that bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 The guy's not psychic and also can't see into the future. As a business man do you have to be psychic to look at the money coming in and the money going out? Of course not and yes he should have held a much, much tighter reign. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Many businesses ran by better businessmen than Randy Lerner have gone to the wall by speculating too hard, to fast. Purely from a business point of view seeing as that appears to be the focus of your post they've actually done an excellent job returning the club to balance. They've cut spending drastically and despite some poor managerial performances they have retained the clubs status among the elite whilst doing so. They have also shown a willingness to speculate when deemed appropriate and I'm certain will again. We may well continue to improve on the pitch over the next 12 months alongside making a profit, wouldn't that be novel. From a footballing point of view things were great for a while there weren't they, there was no need to panic. The club was on track for the top and a champions league spot looked all but inevitable for a time. We even deemed ourselves to be in a title race one Christmas, why wouldn't they back their man? Your man too as I seem to recall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 From a footballing point of view things were great for a while there weren't they, there was no need to panic. The club was on track for the top and a champions league spot looked all but inevitable for a time. We even deemed ourselves to be in a title race one Christmas, why wouldn't they back their man? Your man too as I seem to recall... I'm not saying he shouldn't have been backed but it should have been done in a much more controlled way with a clear plan. What we did was spend a shit load hoping for champions league. I'm still not convinced qualifying for the champions league would have solved all our issues.they've actually done an excellent job returning the club to balance. I can't agree with this at all. Towards the end of the MoN era was when the returning to balance needed to start. We spent 2 years wasting more money on similar players, spent £16 million on managerial compensations and started to lose money with low attendances and low league finishes. How is that excellent? They then hit the brakes hard under lambert and gambled big time with the long term future of the club. Again I find it hard to see this as excellent. We've had 3 consecutive regation worried seasons. We've just had two consecutive seasons with our lowest two premiership point totals. Randy Lerner has done a piss poor job up to now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 It's excellent because they succeeded. We didn't spend anywhere near the same amount of cash under Houllier and McLeish. That McLeish made a few more dreadful signings is not down to Lerner, he isn't a scout. He was clearly working within the confines of a budget. Basically neither you or I know enough about the finances of a football club to judge so harshly. Nor do we know what arrangement the chairman has with his manager at the current time regarding wages. Who's foot was on the brake? I believe Lambert had more than a small say in how to approach the financial situation. I think he's relishing the challenge, a challenge partly set by himself. One he fully believes in. What we do know though is that it has worked. We're back to being self sufficient, or at least we believe that to be the case? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 3, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 3, 2013 Lerner appointed McLeish and allowed him to spend a fairly large amount of money, which he wasted. That is absolutely Lerner's fault. Lerner appointed a man with a poor managerial track record who's record signing was Nicola Zigic and then allowed him to spend a fair amount of money when we didn't have a great deal. I fail to see how that isn't Lerner's fault much like the huge amount spent on recruiting and then paying off McLeish and Houllier. He has done a terrible job at the club in almost every single aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 we'll turn into the next Wigan! Flirting with relegation then after 6 relegation battles we finally bow out to Bradford in the final game of the season losing 0-10. Yes okay, we'll turn into a club averaging 16,000 people for a home game and who share a local population of around 70,000 playing second fiddle to a ruby league team. Our history will be rewritten so that we never actually won a sausage before we gloriously won the FA Cup last year. Yes, I agree, this has been well on the cards for a long time now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Lerner appointed McLeish and allowed him to spend a fairly large amount of money, which he wasted. That is absolutely Lerner's fault. Lerner appointed a man with a poor managerial track record who's record signing was Nicola Zigic and then allowed him to spend a fair amount of money when we didn't have a great deal. I fail to see how that isn't Lerner's fault much like the huge amount spent on recruiting and then paying off McLeish and Houllier. He has done a terrible job at the club in almost every single aspect. Disagree massively. I think at the time about 90%+ of this and other Villa forums considered Given & N'Zogbia to be both obvious and suitable replacements, even Hutton at the time didn't get much flak, he was after all an actual right back (of sorts) which was a novelty for us having been used to playing centre backs or centre mids there! Hindsight proved it to be a waste of money, not poor decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Lerner appointed McLeish and allowed him to spend a fairly large amount of money, which he wasted. That is absolutely Lerner's fault. Lerner appointed a man with a poor managerial track record who's record signing was Nicola Zigic and then allowed him to spend a fair amount of money when we didn't have a great deal. I fail to see how that isn't Lerner's fault much like the huge amount spent on recruiting and then paying off McLeish and Houllier. He has done a terrible job at the club in almost every single aspect. He appointed McLeish which was the single worst decision he's made agreed. Giving McLeish a budget was a necessity unfortunately, but he had tightened the reigns by that point no question. Who knows what the long term plan was under McLeish, luckily we never got to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Did he really tighten the purse-strings as much as people mention. As Trent says his signings of Given, N'Zogbia and Hutton are still killing the wage budget for there output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Did he really tighten the purse-strings as much as people mention. As Trent says his signings of Given, N'Zogbia and Hutton are still killing the wage budget for there output. Giving a 35 year old keeper a 5 year £50,000 per week contract is hardly cost cutting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Exactly, Lambert has just gone his own way on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Unfortunately I cannot see this changing anytime soon. We will be signing more low cost players who hopefully will increase in value to be sold on at some point. Some of the profits will be spent by the manager and some will be used to repay loans to Lerners trust. He will not be bank rolling any big signings and we will have to be self-sufficient to the point that includes paying back the money put in by RL. All of which works well if you have a good scouting system and manager that will use it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 He should have known MON was useless. Sorry, but this is a silly comment. Everyone was over the moon when MON was hired; at that point, his reputation was sky high. If keen followers of football didn't think he was useless (in fact, quite the opposite), how was Lerner supposed to figure that one out? Nobody knew how shit MON was going to be with transfers. I think the important thing to take away from that debacle is that once Lerner did realize MON was useless, he shut him down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Another one who missed the sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I can't blame people for missing the sarcasm. I mean it starts out with some outrageously absurd comments and some brazenly contradictory statements. Most people get half way through and think its a genuine post from the usual miserable stuck record posse and don't bother reading to the end - which is surely the giveaway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Towards the end of the MoN era was when the returning to balance needed to start. If I remember right, that's what Lerner wanted and O'Neill walked out because of it. Who knows what could have happened if O'Neill was a bit more flexible with his management style. His reputation may not be in tatters as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 3, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 3, 2013 Lerner appointed McLeish and allowed him to spend a fairly large amount of money, which he wasted. That is absolutely Lerner's fault. Lerner appointed a man with a poor managerial track record who's record signing was Nicola Zigic and then allowed him to spend a fair amount of money when we didn't have a great deal. I fail to see how that isn't Lerner's fault much like the huge amount spent on recruiting and then paying off McLeish and Houllier. He has done a terrible job at the club in almost every single aspect. Disagree massively. I think at the time about 90%+ of this and other Villa forums considered Given & N'Zogbia to be both obvious and suitable replacements, even Hutton at the time didn't get much flak, he was after all an actual right back (of sorts) which was a novelty for us having been used to playing centre backs or centre mids there! Hindsight proved it to be a waste of money, not poor decision making. You are entitled to your opinion and I'm loath to go much further as I don't want to make this about particular players or managers rather than the chairman. But it isn't hindsight and plenty of people thought them bad signings at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Lerner appointed a man with a poor managerial track record who's record signing was Nicola Zigic and then allowed him to spend a fair amount of money when we didn't have a great deal. It is well known and understood in the Birmingham area that McLeish was surprised when the Birmingham board signed Zigic. He had absolutely no knowledge that it was happening. Randy Lerner has backed all of his managers with substantial funding. The only one who appears to have spent wisely is the current manager. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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