maqroll Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Yes - but youre taking a couple of players isolation to fit an arguement. We also doubled our money on young, downing, Milner, got £5M for Cahil, £2m for Stephen Davis - that lot covers the wages of the two players you mention. I know you could throw in Curtis Davis, Stephen ireland - my point is you have shown losses on two players - Ive shown some where we have made a profit. Whilst we continue to be paralyzed by the talk of wages - we will never progress. A decent premier league footballer earns between £40 - £75k - build that in as fixed cost and take it from there - its not a problem for stoke city, Newcastle, Fulham, Why should it be a problem for Aston Villa ? Seems we are turning into a truly small club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 What perplexes me is the idea that once we have got Bent, Ireland, Dunne, Given an Gabby of the wages we will somehow then reinvest in players. If we are relegated the wages will have to come down again so our squad will have to become even smaller. Many of us would pay £500-£600 to try and guarantee £5000, I would have thought most astute businessmen would spend £5 to £6 million to ensure we get the £50 million TV money. Lerner may well go down in history as the man who destroyed Aston Villa Football Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Shall we start a fund for Randy so he can afford to fly over and watch a match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Hate to bring up the past, but i would really love to know the REAL reason Oniel suddenly walked like he did. We have all heared the varying reasons put forward since, but only he and the club know what occurred. When he walked this club changed for the worse, and its steadily got to where we are now. Personally, i just think Lerner gave up. I think he under estimated what was needed, and downsized his ambition to just hold our own, which in this league means falling further and further behind. He has been ill advised from start to finish, and thats his fault for surrounding himself with lap dogs. He will be gone by the start of next season, then we will learn just how much damage has been done, due to his ill judged gamble with soccer ball. Edited January 26, 2013 by MagicMushroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandaq Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Imagine it. We get relegated, we lose players like weimann, benteke and so on. Lerner sells the club to something like venkys and there we are. Who knows, we might be witnessing the end of this club for a long long time. It may go a completely different route but who knows, the people that are running this club seems clueless so everything is up on the table if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Yes - but youre taking a couple of players isolation to fit an arguement. We also doubled our money on young, downing, Milner, got £5M for Cahil, £2m for Stephen Davis - that lot covers the wages of the two players you mention. I know you could throw in Curtis Davis, Stephen ireland - my point is you have shown losses on two players - Ive shown some where we have made a profit. Whilst we continue to be paralyzed by the talk of wages - we will never progress. A decent premier league footballer earns between £40 - £75k - build that in as fixed cost and take it from there - its not a problem for stoke city, Newcastle, Fulham, Why should it be a problem for Aston Villa ? Milner is an intresting one cost £12mil sold for £22mil which included Ireland who was valued at £6-8 mil Factor in Irelands apparanty £60k wages over 4 years and did we really make anything worthwhile from that deal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villastine Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Guardian article on RL: Randy Lerner's remote control of club a bit rich for Aston Villa fans Who would be taken aback now if Paul Lambert's team could not clamber out of the Premier League's quicksands? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/26/randy-lerner-aston-villa-paul-lambert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Could we not try to operate on an even keel over a longer period. It seems to me we've planned to do this in a drastically short time frame and its resulted in where we are now. Over how long though? We started trying to get on an even keel almost 3 years ago, and its probably going to be 2014 before we manage it (best-case scenario). So thats 4 years minimum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Imagine it. We get relegated, we lose players like weimann, benteke and so on. Lerner sells the club to something like venkys and there we are. Who knows, we might be witnessing the end of this club for a long long time. It may go a completely different route but who knows, the people that are running this club seems clueless so everything is up on the table if you ask me. I think your right. I imagine Lerners only option now is to sell to whomever offers the most, so in effect we have the Venky situation already. Anybody whom thinks we will come straight back up, forget it. Not ITK......right, so dont roast my balls. However, 4 players have already told Lambert they want out if relegated, one of which is weimann. Was told the other three, and they are not whom you would imagine. I just never heared him properly, other than Weimann. Seems Lambert is loosing the dressing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sure wish the General would come on here and give us a pep talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeafyVilla Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sure wish the General would come on here and give us a pep talk Why, so he can feed us the same bullshit he did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sarcasm: mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 Tottenham have always reinvested well. What was said was that plenty of clubs operate successfully on a sell to buy policy. Spurs do not do that. Blandy while I appreciate your reply and agree with much of it you were answering a different point. Yes many clubs operate on an even keel but plenty of clubs do not operate successfully on a sell to buy policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 What was said was that plenty of clubs operate successfully on a sell to buy policy. Spurs do not do that. Blandy while I appreciate your reply and agree with much of it you were answering a different point. Yes many clubs operate on an even keel but plenty of clubs do not operate successfully on a sell to buy policy. it's not really quite the right discussion point, in my view. Sell to buy is something you have to do if you're skint. If you run a club so that wages don't take up such a large percentage of your income as ours did/do, then you have money available each year to reinvest into the club. You were right to say that sell to buy isn't that good a model for us, but my point is and was more about how any club should not let wages get out of scale to income unless there's external funding to cover it. And even for those clubs like Chelsea and man city, they now have the FFP rules to contend/ comply with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 I agree it isn't the right discussion point, I simply wanted to correct a statement that was completely and utterly incorrect, lots of clubs do not successfully operate on a sell to buy basis. That point was simply wrong and I'm glad to see you agree. On your point about the balance of wages in relation to income allowing for sensible investment in the team then yes I agree, that is the way any club should be run. In a sensible sustainable way which is why I've been such a long standing critic of Lerner. I need not go over the mistakes again we all know what they were and are but the current approach to putting right the wrongs of the past is equally as misguided in my view. Before Lerner did the wrong things now he is doing the right thing in the wrong way, I just don't think he is very smart if I'm honest and that includes his inability to see his own weaknesses or lack of knowledge. As for the FFP rules well, that is a different thread all of it's own but lets just say I doubt that they will have much impact upon the way the likes of Chelsea or City run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Of course they won't Trent. FFP provide the genuinely wealthy clubs with more protection from competition giving them the chance to cherry pick from those clubs who are anal about the rules and also provides those clubs not able to compete with a ready made excuse to wheel out at every opportunity. It is a convenient distraction both for the wealthy and the not so wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2013 I agree it isn't the right discussion point, I simply wanted to correct a statement that was completely and utterly incorrect, lots of clubs do not successfully operate on a sell to buy basis. That point was simply wrong and I'm glad to see you agree. On your point about the balance of wages in relation to income allowing for sensible investment in the team then yes I agree, that is the way any club should be run. In a sensible sustainable way which is why I've been such a long standing critic of Lerner. I need not go over the mistakes again we all know what they were and are but the current approach to putting right the wrongs of the past is equally as misguided in my view. Before Lerner did the wrong things now he is doing the right thing in the wrong way, I just don't think he is very smart if I'm honest and that includes his inability to see his own weaknesses or lack of knowledge. As for the FFP rules well, that is a different thread all of it's own but lets just say I doubt that they will have much impact upon the way the likes of Chelsea or City run.I think, or at least we were told and there's absolutely nothing to refute this, that the aim early on was to do what people are saying now with regard to staying up, but for the Champions league - deliberately spend / invest to get to a new level of income from Champions league - spend up front and get it back later. Liverpool did the same under Dalglish. Neither worked, and both have had to (to different levels) reign in spending on wages and fees. I'm OK with the idea of someone putting their own money in, in that way, if it doesn't endanger the long term existence of the club - i.e. if they're prepared to effectively write off the money. I think randy's done that, but he can't or won't do it again. Fair enough.Re the FFP thing, whatever the effect on the Champions league teams, I think the basic idea behind it, from Platini, for clubs not to get into horrible debt is a good one. It'll be picked and worked away at, and people will look to circumvent the intent, much like you get with tax avoidance or whatever. Doesn't mean the idea is wrong. Though we'll have to see what the implementation brings. As for Villa trying to adhere to the principles - don't spend more than you earn, apart from the people who want magic money, there's no one going to disagree with it, is there?It's just the effect and the speed of the way it's been done that's hurting. Even then there was money to spend in the summer. Of course they won't Trent. FFP provide the genuinely wealthy clubs with more protection from competition giving them the chance to cherry pick from those clubs who are anal about the rules and also provides those clubs not able to compete with a ready made excuse to wheel out at every opportunity.It is a convenient distraction both for the wealthy and the not so wealthy.Not sure about "convenient distraction" really. It's slightly weird to see someone argue for more money, more investment at Football level, yet at national gov't level, you seem to argue the opposite, despite the ability of the Gov't to actually create it's own money from nothing. But that's off topic, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Totally off topic and totally different situation and circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Lerner or Faulkner need to take a leaf out of Nicola Cortese's book. Southhampton have been a bit deluded about Atkins being sacked so he has come out and explain himself. I dont blame Lerner for not speaking he is the owner, can basically do what he wants, but Faulkner not coming out, there is no excuse. Dont know the guy but have hatred for the way he is ignoring us fans. If he had any knowledge of football he would know you dont ignore the fans in times of need, truely disgusting to me. Just in hiding like a scared cat!!!! Gets away with alot for me, has alot more to do with our club than alot of us think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think your right. I imagine Lerners only option now is to sell to whomever offers the most, so in effect we have the Venky situation already. Anybody whom thinks we will come straight back up, forget it. Not ITK......right, so dont roast my balls. However, 4 players have already told Lambert they want out if relegated, one of which is weimann. Was told the other three, and they are not whom you would imagine. I just never heared him properly, other than Weimann. Seems Lambert is loosing the dressing room. Isn't Weimann signing a new contract? :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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