The Randy Lerner thread

[Zatman]

4 games and the criticism starts. this thread only seems to gets updated when we lose 

 

when is the relegation thread opening?

[TrentVilla]

I can't speak for anyone else but my view on Lerner didn't change when we won away at Arsenal on the opening day and it didn't change following a defeat at home to Newcastle. My view of him today remains largely the same as it has done for the last 3 to 4 years.

 

I rather suspect the same applies to most people really.

[leviramsey]

People's views probably didn't change on the back of x<10 good or x<10 bad results.

However, the quality of recent results/transfer activity does certainly seem to affect people's willingness to state or reiterate their views in this thread...

(Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that: no thread is really supposed to be a continuous barometer of opinion)

[markavfc40]

I can't speak for anyone else but my view on Lerner didn't change when we won away at Arsenal on the opening day and it didn't change following a defeat at home to Newcastle. My view of him today remains largely the same as it has done for the last 3 to 4 years.

 

I rather suspect the same applies to most people really.

 

I'd put myself in this bracket. My view of Lerner has been consistant for the last 3 years.

[darrenm]

My view changed last January when I went from the positive side of neutral to the negative. I think he pulled funding too quickly and only Lambert's ability at the end of the season kept us up.

[Big_John_10]

My view changed pretty much the day MON walked out. In the days that followed I predicted we'd drop but I never thought we'd experience the consistent level of shit that we have.

[TRO]

I understand the financial constraints that we have had to endure due to wasting so much money on sub standard players and compensation awards to substandard managers.

In terms of signing quality

I want to know when do we " go again" in the transfer market like we do with the team.

[thetrees]

My view changed last January when I went from the positive side of neutral to the negative. I think he pulled funding too quickly and only Lambert's ability at the end of the season kept us up.

That would be the same 'ability' that has provoked this latest surge on this particular thread.

I like Lambert, but tactically he appears to be very one dimensional.

[TRO]

I share a similar view of our owner as I had of the chairmen over the following managers:

Ron Saunders (couldn't have had much worse chairman)

SIr Alex Ferguson (many chairmen, didn't make much difference who they were.)

Brian Clough ( just openly despised his)

Don Revie ( just a quintessential Jewish owner)

BIll Shankly / Bob Paisley(havn't a clue)

Matt Busby (havn't a clue)

Sorry Randy not to be too disrespectful

Nondescript.

[The Fun Factory]

Right I am a bit bored so humour me folks. I have just done a quick stat check over Doug's last 7 seasons at Villa, and Randy's 7 seasons since he took over in 2006.  From 1999-2000 to the 2005-2006 season, Villa finished as high as 6th, and as low as 16th. Their best seaon was in 99-00 when they came 6th, got to the FA cup final and League cup semi final. The average place was 10th, and the average points total was 50.2 pts.

 

From 2006-07 to 12-13 season finished as high as 6th, and as low as 16th. Their best season was in 09-10 in which Villa came 6th (on 64 pts in fairness), got to a League cup final and FA cup semi final. Their average place was 9.8, and average points total was 51.8.  It is still quite impressive that Villa lost 26 points in 3 seasons from 64 in 09-10, to 38 in 11-12.

 

Spot the difference? The last years under Doug everyone was moaning that we were underinvested and not achieving what we should be doing. Even with a billionaire owner we basicially have not changed at all. A 6th to 16th side. Football has changed massively but for a variety of reasons, Villa are as far from the top, or even further,  than at the turn of the century.

[MikeMcKenna]

"The last years under Doug everyone was moaning that we were underinvested and not achieving what we should be doing." Many of were against Ellis for more than "the last years".

 

As regards Randy Lerner.  From 2006 - 2009,  he was a breath of fresh air and did a great job by various means of raising our expectations and making us believe again.

 

However for the last 4, his business & leadership skills have been found wanting. I would NEVER want an owner like Ellis back again but his lies and promises  fooled some of the people a lot of the time and perversly raised spirits occassionally.

 

However Lerner is the invisible man who never speak to the fans and is effectively an absent landlord. He has failed, offers no hope for the future and wants out.

 

The novelty has clearly worn off and his priority is now to get his money back. He is no longer interested in success.

 

He should change our motto "Prepared" to "Survive"

[The Fun Factory]

I did the last years  as a fair comparison, as the 7 years before included 2 league cup wins, a  runners up spot, a 4th and a 5th. Of which under Lerner which we haven't even come close to doing.

[Bunnski]

It's obvious the guy couldn't give a monkeys about the club anymore, It also doesn't help that he has proven himself to not be very bright by one bad decision after another. If we spent the extra 8 - 10m on the type of midfielder we need(one that can take free kicks and dictate play) then imo that would improve us by miles and also win us enough extra points to justify the outlay.  Especially now that we have another big man up front.  

 

The sooner he sells us the better, as the longer this goes on then the bigger chance that we will be relegated. We are a big club but we have been spending like a club that has just been promoted and paying wages that only allow us to sign unproven players. I just hope Lambert is good enough to get us up the table and hopefully avoid another season like last year but its looking dodgy to me unfortunately.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Bunnski

[Big_John_10]

Don't forget to add that during that period under Doug we were not in debt or making huge losses each year.

So basically we're losing millions of pounds while being as awful as we were when Doug was finally coming to an end.

And Lerner actually gets defended? Why? Because he put his own money in? Lets see how out of pocket he actually is when he sells up.

I did the last years as a fair comparison, as the 7 years before included 2 league cup wins, a runners up spot, a 4th and a 5th. Of which under Lerner which we haven't even come close to doing.

And people wanted Doug out during all that.

Now we're just happy we might one day be a midtable team.

[Guest]

There are thousands of people, more important than Lerner, who have a lot less money, who pay out thousands each year to watch the team, who turn up time and time again. 

 

He's rich, bought a club and stuck around when things were good, boasted about a tattoo - and now cannot be bothered to turn up when things get bad for him.

 

Imagine if those loyal fans spending thousands did the same.

[OutByEaster?]

There are thousands of people, more important than Lerner, who have a lot less money, who pay out thousands each year to watch the team, who turn up time and time again. 

 

He's rich, bought a club and stuck around when things were good, boasted about a tattoo - and now cannot be bothered to turn up when things get bad for him.

 

Imagine if those loyal fans spending thousands did the same.

Whilst I get the point you're making, and understand it; technically speaking, if we'd played in an empty stadium with Lerners investment, we'd be financially healthier than if we'd had the support we had and lost Lerners investment. He outspends the fanbase. He doesn't outspend the viewers mind you.

[Guest]

 

There are thousands of people, more important than Lerner, who have a lot less money, who pay out thousands each year to watch the team, who turn up time and time again. 

 

He's rich, bought a club and stuck around when things were good, boasted about a tattoo - and now cannot be bothered to turn up when things get bad for him.

 

Imagine if those loyal fans spending thousands did the same.

Whilst I get the point you're making, and understand it; technically speaking, if we'd played in an empty stadium with Lerners investment, we'd be financially healthier than if we'd had the support we had and lost Lerners investment. He outspends the fanbase. He doesn't outspend the viewers mind you.

 

 

I'd be a little more accepting of what he is trying to do (whatever this may be) if he came out and spoke to us - or to some select fans - and if he attended more games. 

 

Like I said, he was all over us with PR galore when things were going well, now things are not so good, he has kept himself over the other side of the ocean. It is weak. I think it would paint a better picture if he looked like he wanted to be captain of the ship.

 

I dislike Doug, I don't want Doug as a chairman, but at least he stuck it out.

[OutByEaster?]

I think that's a very fair criticism dodgy (and a fair backhanded complement to Doug in fairness) - personally I'm not so bothered whether it's Lerner, but I agree that we need someone who can be seen to be carrying the flag and representing the club - sometimes that can be the manager, but sometimes it has to be someone else.

 

If Faulkner had a higher profile or even if there was a regular, faceless message, a sort of here's what we're trying to do with the club, what the plan is etc. I'd be pretty happy. I think we'd be a little more understanding of some things than they think, and they could still put "and don't forget to buy the away kit" at the bottom.

 

In recent years, I feel I support the club as much as the team, I think because it's never been clearer that the condition of the business is the single largest influence on the performance of the team and I'm not sure communications have changed to match that - we still get lots of info on the players, but not much on the ticket sales, the income from merchandise or the values of our sponsorship - we know there are things that are commercially sensitive, but we're interested and we know it's important.

 

As I say, for me that doesn't need to be Lerner - I'm not sure it is elsewhere - Abramovich, whilst visible, doesn't talk much and interferes a lot - he's a terrible owner in every regard but one. Elsewhere, it's not really owners that do the talking - maybe it should be, I'm sure fans of other clubs want to know exactly the same things we want to know - but I'll hear it from anyone that wants to tell me, and the only thing I'd really like Lerner to be is much, much richer.

[Guest]

I'm on my phone and hate posting like that but will try.

We all used to moan when Doug didn't buy Juninho, or more to point not signing Izzet cost us 4th (was it 4th?) but nobody ever mentioned that it wasn't Doug's money (and yes, Doug took a lot out too).

Fast forward to now and the not signing players that was used as a stick to beat with back then, is not used ad it is Randy's money (ok fair enough, it would be)

But 10 years ago it wasn't Doug's, so he would have less right to use that money for Juninho, than Randy would for player a,b or c, except we know Randy could - whereas Doug had more barriers to go through as it was not really his choice.

so, does this make the argument on the Juninho or Izzet case weak, or does it weaken the "its Randys money" argument?

And not buying Izzet cost us a place further up the table whereas not getting a player (Belhanda, Kiyo, Popov) could cost us a lot more.

(Will edit mistakes etc later)

[The Fun Factory]

I know Lerner doesn't like the limelight and that is fair enough, but how hard is it for him to do about 1 interview a year on AVTV? Hardly Newsnight with Paxman is it?! If he is the custodian of this great club and all that claptrap, then at least we should know his rough outline for the club on a very occasional basis.