Manager Paul Lambert

[GENTLEMAN]

Simple.

Back him, give him the chance to bring in 3/4 ready made players, I guarantee we will shoot up the table and play better football.

But before we slaughter him, we need the chairman to show faith and let him spend more than the 2.5m per player he has had.

And let's face it, if it wasn't for the wage bill needing reduced on instruction from Lerner, he wouldn't have to split 40m over 16 players. It is a budget rebuild for gods sake.

I am expecting us to spend more on established players next summer, I will be very disappointed if we fail to do so. 

[Richard]

We are a mid table club with a mid table board currently only willing and prepared to fund at lower table levels.  We have a manager who is working on a long term plan to have the club perform to a higher level than that consistently and to be honest given the funding and the fact that clubs around us have spent large sums more than us the fact that we are at this place in the league with as many points as we have is pretty admirable.

 

Note the long term by the way.  Sort of signifies more than 16 months despite the supporter frustration and impatience that pervades this site.

[sne]

Anyone else get the feeling that some people love it here when we are doing bad?

 

"Convince me" " Please explain how he did such a good job?" "Why is he so inept?" "He is ruining this great club"

 

I get the frustration, but you guys are just as bad as the blind believers. Obviously most people want us to do good but making drastic decisions can have some serious outcomes. It can either help or end in tears. We are at a bad state, unlike Spurs we don`t have that many players to fall back on that can carry us if shit hits the fan

Well just like in football this forum is all about point scoring, so people on either side of whatever argument will be quick to point out they where (in their mind at least )right. Im as guilty of it as everyone else.

We all love Aston Villa and wan't us to do well, we just disagree on what path will lead us there

[GENTLEMAN]

Yes I wonder how any business makes sure it doesn't spend more than it can afford. Must just be luck for all those that manage it. 

 

Manchester City?

[Morpheus]

So many holes in that post, I don't know where to begin but I'll try.

 

1) Accusing you of creating a strawman is abuse? Right.

 

2) It clearly isn't a fair comment though. You state 'Surely if Lambert is as good as many are saying', yet if you look through the thread, there are maybe one or two categorically stating that he is doing a 'good job'. Most are saying that they don't want him sacked. Therein lies the strawman. To add to that, your post was clearly made to create an argument with those who still support Lambert with the bitingly antagonistic tone.

 

3) One poster called Lambert 'potentially the best of his generation' right when he was appointed, so if you're using a single comment made by single poster over a year ago then it appears you're clutching at straws.

 

4) Again with the black and white thinking. The limited funding by Lerner is by no means the defining factor of Lambert's reign but it is a contributing factor. Nobody is using it as an excuse, but it has an effect on the job that Lambert can do. To completely dismiss that shows a fundamental lack of understanding.

 

5) And this is the most important one for me. How can one define whether a manager is doing an 'good' or a 'bad' job? It isn't a yes/no question so it simply can't have a yes/no answer. There are numerous factors to look at and even then it's no clearer IMO. I'm going to state my opinion of him but this is no means a reflection on what anybody else thinks. Lambert, like any human, has his strengths and weaknesses. He seems to be able to motivate his players, with them coming back from losing positions on multiple occasions (most points from losing positions in the league AFAIK), is able to make the big calls while drowning out others and shows some tactical nous at times. However, and this is where he frustrates me most, he undermines his own tactical ability by making (or not making on occasion) decisions that are seemingly obvious to the everyday football fan. I'm as bad as any other fan; I think I know best with regards to tactics, but I probably don't. Our home form is absolutely diabolical and I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for Bradford. However, the run we went on last season went some way to helping with that disappointment.

 

On the flip side, our away form has been excellent and one bad result at Fulham can't dismiss that (top 5 in the league AFAIK) and could be even better as I thought we edged the games at WHU/Hull, but in truth neither team deserved to win either game. And you can't really argue with the points progress, but I'm sure this will be countered with 'lowered ambition etc'. Playing style is neither here nor there right now. People moaned about the defence last season and we played far too open at times. Now we've closed up and results are better but playing style is worse and the same people are complaining again. And before the 'why can't he shore up the defence AND keep the attack clicking', it clearly isn't as simple as that.

 

Players he's bought. The players who looked great last season haven't suddenly become terrible. The amount of players he brought in, there was no way he was going to have a 100% hit rate but I think for what he's had to spend he's done well.

 

All in all with Lambert, he's doing an 'okay' job. Certainly not groundbreaking, but there is no way in hell he should be sacked. People who continue to use last season to beat him with clearly don't understand what job he actually did.

 

In conclusion, I have 2 points.

 

1) In football, things are rarely black or white. There are many factors. Your OP displayed a simplistic view combined with a strawman argument.

2) Just because one doesn't scream 'Lambert is crap' on this forum doesn't mean that they have reservations/criticisms of him. For me, I just get worn down reading the same negativities and circular discussions that I don't wish to provide anything new because there's a perception that I think Lambert can't do any wrong which couldn't be further from the truth.

Some of that i don't agree with but in general an excellent post.

[Guest]

Simple.

Back him, give him the chance to bring in 3/4 ready made players, I guarantee we will shoot up the table and play better football.

But before we slaughter him, we need the chairman to show faith and let him spend more than the 2.5m per player he has had.

And let's face it, if it wasn't for the wage bill needing reduced on instruction from Lerner, he wouldn't have to split 40m over 16 players. It is a budget rebuild for gods sake.

I am expecting us to spend more on established players next summer, I will be very disappointed if we fail to do so.

I hope you are right. With the right backing, we will win trophies under Lambert.

[Zatman]

 

From a Spurs website.....

 

Chiriches - bit early to tell, and to be fair he's missed all their worst drubbings

Paulinho - technically limited midfield workhorse of the kind Brazil have feted since 1994 ("Brazilian 'water carriers' from Dunga onwards" would be a good feature for one of the writers on tactics). Suspect he might look ok if his only job were to close down opposing players and quickly give the ball to someone with an iota of attacking ability when he receives it. Unfortunately, at Tottenham he has no teammate who meets that description and instead subjects the paying public to his own hapless attempts to be a playmaker

Capoue - another midfield plodder. Looks slightly drunk when running with the ball

Chadli - just bizarre that he is playing for a Premier League team with theoretical top 4 ambitions. Lacks pace, passing ability, skill... any attribute that might enable him to prise open a defence

Holtby - Little bit more craft than Chadli, but compare him to the number 10/winger type players at the clubs Spurs are supposedly competing with eg Hazard, Cazorla, David Silva... He is nowhere near. What's the point of having dross like this filling squad places? Just get a smaller number of better players, like Arsenal

Soldado - knocking on 30 million euros for a striker already in his late 20s who seems to have nothing to set him apart from players of the level of Gary Hooper or Shane Long. Suspect he will prove the worst buy of a very bad bunch

Eriksen - Might turn out ok, but utter madness to expect a 21 year old in a new country moving from a much weaker league to be sole creative outlet for a team aiming for the top 4

Lamela - As above. Not such a weak league, but he just seems such a tragic figure destined not to fit in England. I'd wager he'll be back in Italy by the start of next season.

 

Not just Lambert who can't pick up these budding Roy Keanes that are apparently out there waiting to be spotted

 

At least we didn't waste £100m + and the same again  in wages

 

Capoue - looks slightly drunk when running.....classic line! very funny

We'll at least they're not trying to excuse defeat by the opposing team earning more.

 

 

what does that even mean?

[Adbo9]

Lets face it - the best thing Lambert has going for him is the fact that he isn't Alex McCleish................ We could have followed Big Eck up with a dream team of Adolf Hitler with Fred West as no2 and they'd have got a smoother ride than the ginger one...........

 

I just think Villa have got a weak squad, and bar 2 or 3 players a very "championship" looking team............. the football is boring, the manager is boring, the players don't excite and the atmosphere at Villa Park is beyond flat to the point its just not worth shelling out for my season ticket.............

[Morpheus]

 

 

From a Spurs website.....

 

Chiriches - bit early to tell, and to be fair he's missed all their worst drubbings

Paulinho - technically limited midfield workhorse of the kind Brazil have feted since 1994 ("Brazilian 'water carriers' from Dunga onwards" would be a good feature for one of the writers on tactics). Suspect he might look ok if his only job were to close down opposing players and quickly give the ball to someone with an iota of attacking ability when he receives it. Unfortunately, at Tottenham he has no teammate who meets that description and instead subjects the paying public to his own hapless attempts to be a playmaker

Capoue - another midfield plodder. Looks slightly drunk when running with the ball

Chadli - just bizarre that he is playing for a Premier League team with theoretical top 4 ambitions. Lacks pace, passing ability, skill... any attribute that might enable him to prise open a defence

Holtby - Little bit more craft than Chadli, but compare him to the number 10/winger type players at the clubs Spurs are supposedly competing with eg Hazard, Cazorla, David Silva... He is nowhere near. What's the point of having dross like this filling squad places? Just get a smaller number of better players, like Arsenal

Soldado - knocking on 30 million euros for a striker already in his late 20s who seems to have nothing to set him apart from players of the level of Gary Hooper or Shane Long. Suspect he will prove the worst buy of a very bad bunch

Eriksen - Might turn out ok, but utter madness to expect a 21 year old in a new country moving from a much weaker league to be sole creative outlet for a team aiming for the top 4

Lamela - As above. Not such a weak league, but he just seems such a tragic figure destined not to fit in England. I'd wager he'll be back in Italy by the start of next season.

 

Not just Lambert who can't pick up these budding Roy Keanes that are apparently out there waiting to be spotted

 

At least we didn't waste £100m + and the same again  in wages

 

Capoue - looks slightly drunk when running.....classic line! very funny

We'll at least they're not trying to excuse defeat by the opposing team earning more.

 

 

what does that even mean?

 

The poster in question knows exactly what i mean.

[Big_John_10]

Yes I wonder how any business makes sure it doesn't spend more than it can afford. Must just be luck for all those that manage it.

Manchester City?

Manchester city spend more than they can afford?

[StanBalaban]

 

 

Yes I wonder how any business makes sure it doesn't spend more than it can afford. Must just be luck for all those that manage it.

Manchester City?

Manchester city spend more than they can afford?

 

Randy can 'afford' more than he spends, he just doesn't want to.

[Keyblade]

The Spurs thing is interesting. Surely if Lambert is as good as many are saying then his name would be in the frame for that job?

I think you're confusing 'I don't want Lambert sacked' with 'Lambert is amazing'.

Carry on creating strawmen to argue against though

- Strawman - got to love a bit of abuse

How is pointing out the type of argument you are using abuse? You misrepresent people's arguments and then proceed to taking them down. That's what a straw man argument is. Nobody is saying Lambert is amazing, sorry.

thanks for the like at first (quick edit was it? - thank you VT app for notifying me) - any chance of not concentrating on the poster and more on the points being raised? - cheers

Since I was also on mobile I clicked like instead of quote, no clue what that has to do with anything but hey. I'm not sure if you're being serious or not but it was your post that was being discussed (remember the whole straw man thing that you conveniently failed to respond to?) and not you as a poster.

[GENTLEMAN]

Manchester city spend more than they can afford?

 

They did at the beginning of Mansour's reign.

[DelboyVilla]

Lets face it - the best thing Lambert has going for him is the fact that he isn't Alex McCleish................ We could have followed Big Eck up with a dream team of Adolf Hitler with Fred West as no2 and they'd have got a smoother ride than the ginger one...........

 

I just think Villa have got a weak squad, and bar 2 or 3 players a very "championship" looking team............. the football is boring, the manager is boring, the players don't excite and the atmosphere at Villa Park is beyond flat to the point its just not worth shelling out for my season ticket.............

 

And if this is the long term plan then I really think we are up shit creek without a paddle?

 

I am amazed that the board think that buying all these lower league players is going to sustain our Premiership status for the next couple of years. What we need is a manager who knows how to spot a Premier League quality player for reasonable wages with a long term ambitions. Need we really need 16 new players for £2.5m or would 8 for £5M have been better?

[drat01]

So many holes in that post, I don't know where to begin but I'll try.

 

1) Accusing you of creating a strawman is abuse? Right.

 

2) It clearly isn't a fair comment though. You state 'Surely if Lambert is as good as many are saying', yet if you look through the thread, there are maybe one or two categorically stating that he is doing a 'good job'. Most are saying that they don't want him sacked. Therein lies the strawman. To add to that, your post was clearly made to create an argument with those who still support Lambert with the bitingly antagonistic tone.

 

3) One poster called Lambert 'potentially the best of his generation' right when he was appointed, so if you're using a single comment made by single poster over a year ago then it appears you're clutching at straws.

 

4) Again with the black and white thinking. The limited funding by Lerner is by no means the defining factor of Lambert's reign but it is a contributing factor. Nobody is using it as an excuse, but it has an effect on the job that Lambert can do. To completely dismiss that shows a fundamental lack of understanding.

 

5) And this is the most important one for me. How can one define whether a manager is doing an 'good' or a 'bad' job? It isn't a yes/no question so it simply can't have a yes/no answer. There are numerous factors to look at and even then it's no clearer IMO. I'm going to state my opinion of him but this is no means a reflection on what anybody else thinks. Lambert, like any human, has his strengths and weaknesses. He seems to be able to motivate his players, with them coming back from losing positions on multiple occasions (most points from losing positions in the league AFAIK), is able to make the big calls while drowning out others and shows some tactical nous at times. However, and this is where he frustrates me most, he undermines his own tactical ability by making (or not making on occasion) decisions that are seemingly obvious to the everyday football fan. I'm as bad as any other fan; I think I know best with regards to tactics, but I probably don't. Our home form is absolutely diabolical and I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for Bradford. However, the run we went on last season went some way to helping with that disappointment.

 

On the flip side, our away form has been excellent and one bad result at Fulham can't dismiss that (top 5 in the league AFAIK) and could be even better as I thought we edged the games at WHU/Hull, but in truth neither team deserved to win either game. And you can't really argue with the points progress, but I'm sure this will be countered with 'lowered ambition etc'. Playing style is neither here nor there right now. People moaned about the defence last season and we played far too open at times. Now we've closed up and results are better but playing style is worse and the same people are complaining again. And before the 'why can't he shore up the defence AND keep the attack clicking', it clearly isn't as simple as that.

 

Players he's bought. The players who looked great last season haven't suddenly become terrible. The amount of players he brought in, there was no way he was going to have a 100% hit rate but I think for what he's had to spend he's done well.

 

All in all with Lambert, he's doing an 'okay' job. Certainly not groundbreaking, but there is no way in hell he should be sacked. People who continue to use last season to beat him with clearly don't understand what job he actually did.

 

In conclusion, I have 2 points.

 

1) In football, things are rarely black or white. There are many factors. Your OP displayed a simplistic view combined with a strawman argument.

2) Just because one doesn't scream 'Lambert is crap' on this forum doesn't mean that they have reservations/criticisms of him. For me, I just get worn down reading the same negativities and circular discussions that I don't wish to provide anything new because there's a perception that I think Lambert can't do any wrong which couldn't be further from the truth.

So many things wrong with this post it's difficult to know where to start but in the words of Sound of Music - let's start at the very beginning, because it's a very good place to start

 

1) Accusing you of creating a strawman is abuse? Right.

Your posts in reply to mine have taken the "argument" as to being against the poster rather than the point, hence the abuse - the rules of the forum are pretty clear on this, but hey ho

 

2) It clearly isn't a fair comment though. You state 'Surely if Lambert is as good as many are saying', yet if you look through the thread, there are maybe one or two categorically stating that he is doing a 'good job'. Most are saying that they don't want him sacked. Therein lies the strawman. To add to that, your post was clearly made to create an argument with those who still support Lambert with the bitingly antagonistic tone.

Re the comment and Lambert being that good - I have read through this thread and for you to say that there is not a reference to Lambert being a good manager is just wrong. To accuse my post of being there to cause an argument is abuse again - yet again against the rules. As I clearly said the question was a fair and valid one, and interestingly one that you have chosen not to answer? More interested in arguing with the poster than the post?

 

3) One poster called Lambert 'potentially the best of his generation' right when he was appointed, so if you're using a single comment made by single poster over a year ago then it appears you're clutching at straws.

See you did not read my post there - that was just one of a few examples. Again you are concentrating more on the poster than the post I suspect

 

4) Again with the black and white thinking. The limited funding by Lerner is by no means the defining factor of Lambert's reign but it is a contributing factor. Nobody is using it as an excuse, but it has an effect on the job that Lambert can do. To completely dismiss that shows a fundamental lack of understanding.

At last a real point for discussion. I am struggling to find where I, or anyone to be honest has said that Lerner's lack of investment - 180 U turn etc on spending etc can be ignored. Yes it has an effect on Lambert as it would on any manager but that does not give him any sort of "get out of jail free" card that seemingly is the case. To throw your statement back at you are you saying that Lambert can only act effectively on a budget that is greater than he has now? If so go back to my previous point then and why if he is that good, isn't he the subject of enquiry from other clubs etc? You have seemingly made up an argument there, but hey ho

 

5) And this is the most important one for me. How can one define whether a manager is doing an 'good' or a 'bad' job? It isn't a yes/no question so it simply can't have a yes/no answer. There are numerous factors to look at and even then it's no clearer IMO. I'm going to state my opinion of him but this is no means a reflection on what anybody else thinks. Lambert, like any human, has his strengths and weaknesses. He seems to be able to motivate his players, with them coming back from losing positions on multiple occasions (most points from losing positions in the league AFAIK), is able to make the big calls while drowning out others and shows some tactical nous at times. However, and this is where he frustrates me most, he undermines his own tactical ability by making (or not making on occasion) decisions that are seemingly obvious to the everyday football fan. I'm as bad as any other fan; I think I know best with regards to tactics, but I probably don't. Our home form is absolutely diabolical and I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for Bradford. However, the run we went on last season went some way to helping with that disappointment.

Suffice to say I do not agree with your summing up on Lambert's abilities especially things like his ability to motivate players for example. How many comments have been made during his tenure as Villa's boss that the team conceded a goal and their head's dropped? Is that a sign of a motivator? For me it isn't - you may well think it is, I don't know - and to be honest don't really care that much. Interesting that you also use some sort of negative stat to prove his worth - coming from losing positions, when was the last time that Villa really dominated a game - Sunderland at home last year? We are seemingly on the back foot far too much of the time. What about the tactics that have proven to be woeful at times - e.g. the use of 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 or whatever we play. Do the results really show that these are right for us? Do the performances show that they are making the best out of the resources?

 

I will agree on one point in that it's about opinions. My opinion is based on various factors from quality of football, apparent tactical awareness, results, defeats and victories and the manner of them, etc etc - a lot of this is based from watching Villa for around 40 years and suffice to say, like others have commented on various threads on here and other forums, this is some of the most depressing football etc that we have endured for a long time

 

But I am sure you wont agree with any of the above so fairy snuff - it would be good to see an answer to the question though as to why you think the "big" jobs have not been offered to PL if he is of a certain quality

 

Edit: As it's Christmas and you are never going to agree with me nor I with you seemingly on this let's leave it and hope for a more prosperous 2014 for Villa

Edited December 16, 2013 by drat01

[samjp26]

[Risso]

We are a mid table club with a mid table board currently only willing and prepared to fund at lower table levels.  We have a manager who is working on a long term plan to have the club perform to a higher level than that consistently and to be honest given the funding and the fact that clubs around us have spent large sums more than us the fact that we are at this place in the league with as many points as we have is pretty admirable.

 

Note the long term by the way.  Sort of signifies more than 16 months despite the supporter frustration and impatience that pervades this site.

 

But we're not lower table in terms of funding at all, you're believing the nonsense peddled by some.  We've spent £43m, and according to Paul Faulkner and Robin Russell it was Lambert's decision on how he spent it.  The fact that he has spent that amount of money, and has turned us into the dreariest team in the Premier League is why I want him gone.

[pacbuddies]

 

 

 

It's a bit sad when people are arguing over whether an injury prone player or a suspension prone player is our best player.

Don't say much for the rest of the shit does it.

Yeah like Liverpool best player is suspension prone, arguably second best player is injury prone (Sturridge). They're in horrible shape though.

 

Are you attempting to compare the remainder of our team with that of Liverpools?

 

 

You made a pretty dumb point that a team must be bad if it's two best players get injured or suspended often. 

 

Liverpool show that your point was wrong. 

 

I think you had better read my post again because the only dumb thing is your interpretation of it. 

[samjp26]

I'd like to add some comments direct from Lerner last January, regarding the reshaping of the squad, to show that it is an actual board made decision to do so and not just Lambert going mental and deciding he hated all of our old players. I know that a new manager will always bring in new faces and try to reshape things, but not normally as drastic as we have seen with Lambert. The comments are below:

 

"In the time I’ve come to know Paul what is clear above all else is his strength of character and belief in his approach," said Lerner.

 

"Fortunes can shift quickly in this game and a sense that one has it right can become grave doubt in a matter of a few games. Villa’s board knew that with Paul we would begin to address the club’s multi-year lack of competitive stability by reshaping the squad with seven new signings in the summer."

 

"It has been rewarding at times, although certainly frustrating as well, particularly recently."

 

The reshape of the squad is a decision from the top, I'm sure Lambert was made aware of this before he signed up to manage us, it was his task to do this. There are also comments from a similar time period from Lambert himself:

 

"It’s finance. We are going to have to build. I don’t know how much money the chairman has put in over the years — I don’t think it’s light. The club cannot go bursting into major debt. We have to build and not let it go back to what has happened before."

 

As many of us keep saying, this problem roots back to Lerner, for whatever reason it may be. Whether he wants to sell the club or whether he wants to take it back to basics and start fresh, I don't know and neither does anybody else apart from Lerner and those around him.

 

All we can do is back Lambert, the strategy he has employed based on the task given to him by the board and the team that he has assembled in order for us to re-gain this 'competitive stability' - I just hope that now he has seemingly completed the task of stripping things back, he will be backed to help push us forward.

Edited December 16, 2013 by samjp26

[Didiersix]

 

We are a mid table club with a mid table board currently only willing and prepared to fund at lower table levels.  We have a manager who is working on a long term plan to have the club perform to a higher level than that consistently and to be honest given the funding and the fact that clubs around us have spent large sums more than us the fact that we are at this place in the league with as many points as we have is pretty admirable.

 

Note the long term by the way.  Sort of signifies more than 16 months despite the supporter frustration and impatience that pervades this site.

 

But we're not lower table in terms of funding at all, you're believing the nonsense peddled by some.  We've spent £43m, and according to Paul Faulkner and Robin Russell it was Lambert's decision on how he spent it.  The fact that he has spent that amount of money, and has turned us into the dreariest team in the Premier League is why I want him gone.

 

 

Since when have we spent £43 million?

Also, if you want him gone, who do you want as a replacement?