Manager Paul Lambert

[briny_ear]

 

No, Rule 1. Be honest but fair with your players.

 

It is possible to be supportive of young players but still realistic about their performances, and arguably that does not mislead them into thinking they are better than they really are.

I'd say the communication between them on the training ground is a far more accurate and meaningful gauge to the players of what the manager thinks of them, rather than some obligatory interview he has to give for the official site full of rhetoric and clichéd quotes. That doesn't mean he's not bollocking them when they need it behind closed doors. He just isn't doing it in public. Again, good sensible management.

 

Lambert thought the point against West Ham was a "massive" achievement and "brilliant".

Well no, strictly speaking he didn't say either of those things, which makes your subsequent comment of fans swallowing spin incorrect from the off. He actually called it "another massive point for us away from home". Not a "massive achievement". And the only use of the word 'brilliant' was in the context of how we competed given our injuries. It wasn't used to describe the point we got. It makes it hard to discuss when people are just making stuff up :-/

 

Totally happy to change the precise wording in my sentence:

 

"Lambert thought the point against West Ham was 'massive' and the way we competed given our injuries was 'brilliant'. Is he really expecting fans to swallow such spin without raising an eyebrow?"

 

I challenge anyone to show how that changes the sense of what I said one jot. [unless they were trying to obfuscate the point by pretending it was in some way intended as a deceitful misquote, which it wasn't.] 

 

Just reflecting on your first point, the assertion that he is bollocking young players on the training ground, while praising them in public, we only really have his public statements to go by. We have no idea what he says behind closed doors, so there is no basis to believe that your account is correct - you are just guessing. [It makes it hard to discuss when people are just making stuff up.]

 

Anyway, I was talking about his public statements and their impact on longsuffering fans, so what he says on the training ground is of little relevance.

Edited November 5, 2013 by briny_ear

[VillaCas]

Nice too see some sanity returning to this thread. The recent posts by BOF and Richard pretty much some up my feelings.

 

We haven't started this season playing as attractively as we finished last. We seem to have tightened up the defence but, so far, at the expense of our attacking threat. We did look poor on Saturday and also against Hull, however, in previous seasons we may well have lost those games and instead came away with points.

 

In hindsight the point against WHU looks even better considering we were without Gabby and Delph, our two best players so far this season, we were missing Luna who gives us another dimension going forward, Weimann is in a very poor run of form and Benteke does not look back to full fitness yet.

 

As has been stated before we are ahead of last season on like for like fixtures and have a decent run of games coming up. Cardiff is an important game for us and three points will give us a little confidence and breathing room.

 

My expectation is that the new signings will start to bed in and perform and we will rise slowly up the league - a couple of signings in January (CB, Mid) and a drama-free 10th-12th place finish. Next season we will see the back of the last of the bomb squad and hopefully will bring 2 or 3 quality players in

 

 

On a general point

Is Gardner fit? When is Zog due back?

[BOF]

Totally happy to change the precise wording in my sentence:

 

"Lambert thought the point against West Ham was 'massive' and the way we competed given our injuries was 'brilliant'. Is he really expecting fans to swallow such spin without raising an eyebrow?"

 

I challenge anyone to show how that changes the sense of what I said one jot. [unless they were trying to obfuscate the point by pretending it was in some way intended as a deceitful misquote, which it wasn't.] 

It did read like a deceitful misquote so I'll take your word that it wasn't intended that way.

 

Just reflecting on your first point, the assertion that he is bollocking young players on the training ground, while praising them in public, we only really have his public statements to go by. We have no idea what he says behind closed doors, so there is no basis to believe that your account is correct - you are just guessing. [It makes it hard to discuss when people are just making stuff up.]

Once again you misquote. I never said "he is bollocking players on the training ground". I said just because he's praising them in public "doesn't mean he isn't bollocking them on the training ground". It's not an assertion at all. The point being that the actual management of the players (and their egos) isn't happening in front of the cameras.

Anyway, I was talking about his public statements and their impact on longsuffering fans, so what he says on the training ground is of little relevance.

Long-suffering fans can dissect every word that is spoken in post-match interviews and official site interviews but I'd have thought that by virtue of being 'long-suffering' they'd know not to read too much into those platitudes.

[VillaCas]

 

Totally happy to change the precise wording in my sentence:

 

"Lambert thought the point against West Ham was 'massive' and the way we competed given our injuries was 'brilliant'. Is he really expecting fans to swallow such spin without raising an eyebrow?"

 

I challenge anyone to show how that changes the sense of what I said one jot. [unless they were trying to obfuscate the point by pretending it was in some way intended as a deceitful misquote, which it wasn't.] 

 

Any point in the PL is "massive" surely? We didn't play well but we did compete throughout with a depleted squad missing at least four first choices (Gabby, Delph, Luna, Okore) and with Weimann and Benteke out of form and not fully fit respectively - if Lambert wants to let his squad know that he was pleased with their effort ie "competed brilliantly", I don't see anything wrong with that.

[briny_ear]

Oh, and talking of making stuff up.

 

Someone's been on top form today...

 

 

MON's reaction was probably fairly typical of him up to that point but much to MON's surprise Lerner kept his word this time and he kept the Milner money. MON('s ego) bided his time and walked away from the club at a point he judged would be the most damaging to Villa's fortunes.

 

I'd love to see the verifiable, documentary sources for that little package.

[srsmithusa]

 

 

Totally happy to change the precise wording in my sentence:

 

"Lambert thought the point against West Ham was 'massive' and the way we competed given our injuries was 'brilliant'. Is he really expecting fans to swallow such spin without raising an eyebrow?"

 

I challenge anyone to show how that changes the sense of what I said one jot. [unless they were trying to obfuscate the point by pretending it was in some way intended as a deceitful misquote, which it wasn't.] 

 

Any point in the PL is "massive" surely? We didn't play well but we did compete throughout with a depleted squad missing at least four first choices (Gabby, Delph, Luna, Okore) and with Weimann and Benteke out of form and not fully fit respectively - if Lambert wants to let his squad know that he was pleased with their effort ie "competed brilliantly", I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

 

Basic principle of managing people and managing public relations. 

Never criticize your people publicly.  You undermine them and the entire organization.  Publicly praise, privately criticize.  Anything else is foolish. Anything else undemines the success of the organization.

Lambert's press conferences are wise and carefully worded to accomplish greater goals than reassuring us that he saw and didn't like the misplaced pass from XXXXX in the 43rd minute.

[BOF]

Briny, it's your selective quoting (as distinct from your misquoting) which has scuppered you this time. That whole piece is prefaced as speculation in response to avfc1982's speculation. Understand the critical distinction? Good try though. Your posts and the attitude displayed within them, including your snide italicked remarks that are themselves hit and miss, are a good example of precisely why I usually stay out of topics like this one and just read from afar.

[KennyPowers]

Is someone after a job as Villa PR officer? I ask as the amount of 'no one dare question the project that will lead us to inevitable success, anyone who does so is just an impatient, short-sighted, so-and-so' posts is really quite impressive. 

[BOF]

Is someone after a job as Villa PR officer? I ask as the amount of 'no one dare question the project that will lead us to inevitable success, anyone who does so is just an impatient, short-sighted, so-and-so' posts is really quite impressive.

No one said don't question it. It does seem that people get uncomfortable at it's mere mention and the support it gets though. Which is curious in itself, no?

[Big_John_10]

Is someone after a job as Villa PR officer? I ask as the amount of 'no one dare question the project that will lead us to inevitable success, anyone who does so is just an impatient, short-sighted, so-and-so' posts is really quite impressive.

No one said don't question it. It does seem that people get uncomfortable at it's mere mention and the support it gets though. Which is curious in itself, no?

Judging by the fans at villa park last home game that support seems to be decreasing.

[BOF]

Judging by the fans at villa park last home game that support seems to be decreasing.

Yep you might be right. It'd be a shame to change direction at this point though IMHO. I don't expect everyone to agree. I'm just putting my view across.

[Big_John_10]

Judging by the fans at villa park last home game that support seems to be decreasing.

Yep you might be right. It'd be a shame to change direction at this point though IMHO. I don't expect everyone to agree. I'm just putting my view across.

To be honest I think it would be a shame if the fans do turn on lambert. I hope they don't but it just seems that they're starting to lean that way.

[Kwan]

A win gives people short memories

[GENTLEMAN]

Is someone after a job as Villa PR officer? I ask as the amount of 'no one dare question the project that will lead us to inevitable success, anyone who does so is just an impatient, short-sighted, so-and-so' posts is really quite impressive. 

 

I guess you have missed the last few weeks as people are questioning Lambert's management. Do not feel threatened by a different opinion/interpretation of events, it is all fair.

[briny_ear]

Briny, it's your selective quoting (as distinct from your misquoting) which has scuppered you this time. That whole piece is prefaced as speculation in response to avfc1982's speculation. Understand the critical distinction? Good try though. Your posts and the attitude displayed within them, including your snide italicked remarks that are themselves hit and miss, are a good example of precisely why I usually stay out of topics like this one and just read from afar.

I think the bolded phrase rather proves my point that you are making stuff up, doesn't it? 

 

In any case, tyour full post was an admirable piece of spin-doctoring where you started up by making unsubstantiated accusations against a former manager but ended by praising the improvement process being undertaken by the present one. Are we to take it that the last couple of paragraphs, full of praise for Lambert, are also speculative and not to be taken seriously? I wouldn't have thought so, but you can of course put me right on that.

 

Apologies if you find my remarks "snide" but you did accuse me, completely without justification, of "making stuff up" and you surely can't expect not to get any come-back on a personal jibe like that? Particularly because, if you actually read any of my posts, you will find about 50% of them are trying to correct false impressions that others create by selective quotes of statistics, etc.

[BOF]

I think the bolded phrase rather proves my point that you are making stuff up, doesn't it? 

It actually doesn't and I'd hope you know why, but I think we've gone beyond that now. We've established this is less a discussion and more a ... actually I'm not sure what it ever was Not constructive anyway.

 

In any case, your full post was an admirable piece of spin-doctoring where you started up by making unsubstantiated accusations against a former manager but ended by praising the improvement process being undertaken by the present one.

It's my opinion. It's not spin-doctoring. Just because you don't agree with someone's viewpoint doesn't mean they're spinning something. I won't apologise for having a positive outlook in the same way I don't expect someone else to apologise for having a negative one. Why not discuss the issues rather than criticise the manner in which someone else has made their points.

Are we to take it that the last couple of paragraphs, full of praise for Lambert, are also speculative and not to be taken seriously? I wouldn't have thought so, but you can of course put me right on that.

The latter part of your last sentence is a good example of what I mean by snide. Anyway, see above. Opinions based on what we're seeing. It's basically what this entire forum is for.

[Mantis]

 

 

 

He's made mistakes but I can think of a lot worse owners than Randy.

I'd love to see this long list of premiership owners that are clearly worse than Lerner.

Too many to list. That's not to say there aren't a lot of better owners as well though.

You can't honestly believe he's one of the worst Premier League owners?

So list some then.

I do believe it, we're having the worst period I've ever experienced as a fan. You don't think that makes him bad?

 

 

Of the current PL owners I'd say definitely Tan, Short, Ashley, Gold & Sullivan and whoever owns Palace. I don't know the ins and outs of all the clubs though so there's a few owners who I have no idea about.

 

The worst you've experienced. I've experienced worse. It's all about opinion really.

 

No, I don't think it makes him bad. I think he's very naive but not bad.

[AshVilla]

Would anyone else agree that we dropped a clanger in not getting Barry in on loan in the summer

 

He was available and would have walked straight into our midfield bringing much needed experience and steel

[Spoony]

Would anyone else agree that we dropped a clanger in not getting Barry in on loan in the summer

 

He was available and would have walked straight into our midfield bringing much needed experience and steel

I wholeheartedly agree

[Rovers13]

He's made mistakes but I can think of a lot worse owners than Randy.

I'd love to see this long list of premiership owners that are clearly worse than Lerner.

Too many to list. That's not to say there aren't a lot of better owners as well though.

You can't honestly believe he's one of the worst Premier League owners?

So list some then.

I do believe it, we're having the worst period I've ever experienced as a fan. You don't think that makes him bad?

Of the current PL owners I'd say definitely Tan, Short, Ashley, Gold & Sullivan and whoever owns Palace. I don't know the ins and outs of all the clubs though so there's a few owners who I have no idea about.

The worst you've experienced. I've experienced worse. It's all about opinion really.

No, I don't think it makes him bad. I think he's very naive but not bad.

Palace owners aren't bad, they just went up too soon. (They also essentially saved the club right?) However, I mostly agree, and this also doesn't factor in recent owners who were worse than Lerner but saw the club relegated. Wolves chairman, arguably reading, and obviously they who must not be named at Rovers.