Big_John_10 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The football under houllier was awful. He ruined everything that was good about us under MoN and did nothing to improve us in any areas. He took a team that has just had its best season in years to not safe after 36 games. He played Ashley young out of position for over 20 games. We were awful at holding on to a lead and pathetic when going behind. It speaks volumes that our two best results of the season were when he was too ill to be anywhere near the players. The football under MON was better then under Houllier...seriously? Also Young was generally played in the No. 10 role because there was nobody better to do it and also Albrighton's form meant he could be moved there without significantly weakening our strength on the wings. To cap it off, Young finished that season with 9 goals and 15 assists. One of his best ever Villa seasons, so what exactly is the problem with how Houllier played him? I can only assume you didn't watch us much that year if you thought there was no issue with it. And if he was so good there why did results start to improve when he went back on the wing? The football under houllier was atrocious, the defence was god awful and we used to pass the ball around midfield before either being tackled or giving it away. A terrible season saved by two games in which he was no where near the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Back on Lambert, I think late October/early November is a good time to start breaking out the barometers on where we're at. There'll be a third of the games under the belt both home and away against varying opponents plus cup runs. I fully expect to be around 11th-14th at that time and would be surprised if were any higher or lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Its a sad day when all you see in the Lambert thread is Houlliers name,nothing against Houllier more a condemnation of Lamberts inability to put something positive on the pitch which we can enjoy and discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The something positive on the pitch who we can enjoy and discuss is called Christian Benteke I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Plenty of positives abut the team, It's just that the negatives are ever present and have been niggling away since the last time we kept a cl**n sh**t. if Lambo stubbornly sticks to the present formation then I fear it'll be a long time before we see "Opposition nil" in any of our league games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Trouble is we all know in our heart of hearts that Benteke won't stay for long. He is too good for the rest of the squad and deserves to play with top class players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier was never ever going to turn it around Eh? He was in the process of doing just that before he had his unfortunate health scare. w Houllier took a top 6 squad down into a relegation struggle for most of the season. He had to buy a centre forward for £24m on about £70k per week to get us out of the mess and had no thought about how Bent would fare the next season given the racing certainty that our two wingers would leave in the summer. Not quite sure how that was "turning it around"? The squad had lost Milner and Barry who were the heart of the midfield. He had also decided MON's style of big lumbering defender who couldn't pass a football had to be replaced but was never given the time to complete that job. It is pretty difficult to start managing a team after the window has shut and preseason is over and then get them playing your style during the season. We had looked better towards the end of the season, better than we have been under Lambert intact. It's ancient history now but I would have been interested to see what Houllier could have done with a summer window and a preseason to work with the team. Personally I'm glad he wasn't around long enough to continue his work. He is a footballing dinosaur. Back on topic, I agree with Terrytini, far too many knee jerk reactions after 1 poor result this season. Lambert needs longer to turn around the damage done by his 3 predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I wish houllier well with his health but I really hated him as our manager. Aloof, arrogant, antique, scouse, indifferent. Sure he wasn't helped by a poisonous dressing room, But his condescending demeanour towards the club and the fans was disgracefully unpleasant. Completely agree. Condescending demeanour is an understatement. And some of the football played under him was as ineffective as anything I've seen since the dark days of Billy McNeill. Lambert is looking at a long term strategy. I sometimes wish some of the fan base would recognise this rather than react to every setback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism. You don't think criticism of the defence is justifiable? Edited September 19, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism.You don't think criticism of the defence is justifiable? Off this season so far? No. Conceding one to Liverpool and arsenal and two to Chelsea and Newcastle isn't poot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 We've conceded a relatively soft goal in the first 20 minutes of each match. It's as if the defence are saying, "there you go, guys, now sort that one out"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism.You don't think criticism of the defence is justifiable? Off this season so far? No. Conceding one to Liverpool and arsenal and two to Chelsea and Newcastle isn't poot Well we've gone behind in every game so far making our task of getting points difficult. It's also continued an awful run of games from last season in which we've failed to keep a clean sheet. This is on the back of a season where we conceded more goals than any other season in prem history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism. You don't think criticism of the defence is justifiable? Off this season so far? No. Conceding one to Liverpool and arsenal and two to Chelsea and Newcastle isn't poot You'd have a point if you look at the season so far in isolation, but as the defence have continued to be as woeful as they've always been, you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism. You don't think criticism of the defence is justifiable? Off this season so far? No. Conceding one to Liverpool and arsenal and two to Chelsea and Newcastle isn't poot Well we've gone behind in every game so far making our task of getting points difficult. It's also continued an awful run of games from last season in which we've failed to keep a clean sheet. This is on the back of a season where we conceded more goals than any other season in prem history. Completely agree Kwan. It's the modern day fan for you who cries and whinges when we're in the bottom third of the table after the grand total of..............four games. There's still 102 points to play for, yes of course we won't win them all but it's still ridiculously early in the season for any proper judgment apart from the obvious lack of an AM which means we'll once again struggle to win many home games which is a justifiable criticism. You don't think criticism of the defence is justifiable? Off this season so far? No. Conceding one to Liverpool and arsenal and two to Chelsea and Newcastle isn't poot You'd have a point if you look at the season so far in isolation, but as the defence have continued to be as woeful as they've always been, you don't. I'd normally agree with both these points. Lambert's teams are always weak defensively (though this year isn't evidence of that yet), so any defensive frailties are a legitimate worry. However, this is where I have a problem, and its not necessarily with you two. When a poster brings up that the finish to last year was very good and say facts like Villa didn't lose to a side outside the top six after January, they immediately get shot down by people saying that doesn't matter now. These same people saying the finish to last year doesn't matter are the ones complaining about the defensive problems last year and the home form the last three years. You can't have it both ways, ignoring any of the good aspects as irrelevant while saying the negative aspects are still relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 The football under houllier was awful. He ruined everything that was good about us under MoN and did nothing to improve us in any areas. He took a team that has just had its best season in years to not safe after 36 games. He played Ashley young out of position for over 20 games. We were awful at holding on to a lead and pathetic when going behind. It speaks volumes that our two best results of the season were when he was too ill to be anywhere near the players. The football under MON was better then under Houllier...seriously? Also Young was generally played in the No. 10 role because there was nobody better to do it and also Albrighton's form meant he could be moved there without significantly weakening our strength on the wings. To cap it off, Young finished that season with 9 goals and 15 assists. One of his best ever Villa seasons, so what exactly is the problem with how Houllier played him? I can only assume you didn't watch us much that year if you thought there was no issue with it. And if he was so good there why did results start to improve when he went back on the wing? The football under houllier was atrocious, the defence was god awful and we used to pass the ball around midfield before either being tackled or giving it away. A terrible season saved by two games in which he was no where near the club. Obviously it wasn't great every game as implementing a new playing philosophy takes time. Houllier didn't even have a pre-season with the team remember. At times though the football was a good as anything produced by a Villa team for ages. Also I'd say that our upturn in form had more to do with Bent and half our midfield returning from injury then Young playing on the wing. It should also be noted that Young did actually play No. 10 in the victories against Man City, Wigan and Blackburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Anyway, back to Lambert... How much time do we give him before we conclude he is simply a poor defensive coach and this will most likely never change? Christmas will be when I pull the barometer out. Edited September 20, 2013 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Anyway, back to Lambert... How much time do we give him before we conclude he is simply a poor defensive coach and this will most likely never change? Christmas will be when pull the barometer out. It's pretty easy to conclude he's a poor defensive coach at this point. However, he's 43 or 44(?) (I might be off on this but) which is still young for a manager so to conclude by this Christmas that he will never be a good defensive manager seems premature. Not that how he coaches defense in ten years will help villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Anyway, back to Lambert... How much time do we give him before we conclude he is simply a poor defensive coach and this will most likely never change? Christmas will be when pull the barometer out. For some, the decision is already made. For others, he is still a young coach. Brashness instead of discipline is in his head. Experience will bring him different view points and alter his approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Anyway, back to Lambert... How much time do we give him before we conclude he is simply a poor defensive coach and this will most likely never change? Christmas will be when pull the barometer out. For some, the decision is already made. For others, he is still a young coach. Brashness instead of discipline is in his head. Experience will bring him different view points and alter his approach. I just hope that relegation isn't the price we pay for his development as a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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