LondonLax Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier was never ever going to turn it around Eh? He was in the process of doing just that before he had his unfortunate health scare. w Houllier took a top 6 squad down into a relegation struggle for most of the season. He had to buy a centre forward for £24m on about £70k per week to get us out of the mess and had no thought about how Bent would fare the next season given the racing certainty that our two wingers would leave in the summer. Not quite sure how that was "turning it around"? The squad had lost Milner and Barry who were the heart of the midfield. He had also decided MON's style of big lumbering defender who couldn't pass a football had to be replaced but was never given the time to complete that job. It is pretty difficult to start managing a team after the window has shut and preseason is over and then get them playing your style during the season. We had looked better towards the end of the season, better than we have been under Lambert intact. It's ancient history now but I would have been interested to see what Houllier could have done with a summer window and a preseason to work with the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adw95 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier long term wouldn't have been bad but it wouldn't have led to anything, he was too old to have a long term plan that was executable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdomlahor Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier was never ever going to turn it around Eh? He was in the process of doing just that before he had his unfortunate health scare. w Houllier took a top 6 squad down into a relegation struggle for most of the season. He had to buy a centre forward for £24m on about £70k per week to get us out of the mess and had no thought about how Bent would fare the next season given the racing certainty that our two wingers would leave in the summer. Not quite sure how that was "turning it around"? Houllier was changing the way we play and implementing his own style. As we know by now, that isn't done quickly. Towards the end of the season when he had his January signings settled in, we played well and beat Man City, Arsenal and Liverpool in the league. You can say that McAllister was caretaker for two of those but it was still Houllier in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Still no comments from Lambert on the Okore injury? Seems a bit strange I'm sure it'll be discussed at the presser today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Still no comments from Lambert on the Okore injury? Seems a bit strange I'm sure it'll be discussed at the presser today. I was hoping the silence would be met with Lambert saying that it's not as bad as first thought. However Okore himself has come out and said he's out long term. Gutting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Lambert needs more time I agree with that. But now that this team is pretty much 'his team' and he's had enough time to change things and put stuff right - i do expect to see improvements. However I don't expect us to be competing on any level for anything just yet, I just want to us progress to mid table obscurity and right now i'm sure all the arguments in the world won't convince me we are near that. There are two many questions marks. Gabby, Benteke, Guzan - are the only consistent 'good' players we have Then we have second season syndrome candidates in Weimann and Lowton Maybe Delph and Westwood are players who have impressed and need to keep impressing - but again Westwood is pretty limited and Delph hasn't quite delivered yet although again he's looked the part at times. So aside from the new players who haven't played enough to be judged yet, the rest seem to have question marks against all of them. We don't even seem to have 100% faith in our Captain or have any idea what our midfield should be. I don't honestly know a single Villa fan who believes in the tactics we play at the moment. Yes the Kevin Keegan style of play is awesome when it pays off but horrendous when it doesn't. Hoof ball from Guzan to Benteke is lame, bringing on more strikers when losing the midfield battle is also useless. Edited September 19, 2013 by VillanousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Lambert needs more time I agree with that.But now that this team is pretty much 'his team' and he's had enough time to change things and put stuff right - i do expect to see improvements. However I don't expect us to be competing on any level for anything just yet, I just want to us progress to mid table obscurity and right now i'm sure all the arguments in the world won't convince me we are near that. There are two many questions marks. Gabby, Benteke, Guzan - are the only consistent 'good' players we have Then we have second season syndrome candidates in Weimann and Lowton Maybe Delph and Westwood are players who have impressed and need to keep impressing - but again Westwood is pretty limited and Delph hasn't quite delivered yet although again he's looked the part at times. So aside from the new players who haven't played enough to be judged yet, the rest seem to have question marks against all of them. We don't even seem to have 100% faith in our Captain or have any idea what our midfield should be. I don't honestly know a single Villa fan who believes in the tactics we play at the moment. Yes the Kevin Keegan style of play is awesome when it pays off but horrendous when it doesn't. Hoof ball from Guzan to Benteke is lame, bringing on more strikers when losing the midfield battle is also useless. Has he? It has become 'his' team this season. So a pre-season and 4 games is enough time? It really isn't and in the Sky world of instant results a few people are going to be disappointed. I'd say we haven't fully got going yet under Lambert. He should be judged on this season and the next, as a platform to really push on to the coat tails of where we want to be. It's as simple as that. The chairman isn't going to throw money at it, changing the manager again will take us back to square one. There is no quick fix. The thing is we have had to strip it back so much that we're are basically a promoted team. Our 21 prem yrs count for nothnig at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier was never ever going to turn it around Eh? He was in the process of doing just that before he had his unfortunate health scare. No he wasn't. If he stayed we'd have gone down the following season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier was never ever going to turn it around Eh? He was in the process of doing just that before he had his unfortunate health scare. w Houllier took a top 6 squad down into a relegation struggle for most of the season. He had to buy a centre forward for £24m on about £70k per week to get us out of the mess and had no thought about how Bent would fare the next season given the racing certainty that our two wingers would leave in the summer. Not quite sure how that was "turning it around"? Well firstly I'm not sure how you define 'turning it around' but if we are going on form then the first half a season under Houllier was bad and the second half was generally good. Therefore form-wise, he was indeed 'turning it around'. You state he inherited a top 6 squad but how many top 6 players did he actually inherit? Young and Downing? Friedel perhaps? I can't think of any others really. Not to mention that most of other players who performed well under MON just turned to s**t as soon as he left. Houllier also had to deal players like Dunne, Collins and Warnock supposedly trying to create some sort of player revolt. He had to deal with one of the worst injury-crises I've seen at Villa during the first half of the season (he had to start Hogg against United!) which unsurprisingly coincided with the bad form. He also attempted to change our entire philosophy in terms of playing style from basically counter-attacking kick-and-rush to possession-based pass-and-move which obviously takes time. Although I must say that some of the football played under Houllier was amongst the best I've seen Villa ever produce. It's quite amusing that you somehow use the Bent deal against him. Overpriced yes but was always needed even if we had been higher up the table. A prolific striker had been needed at Villa for ages before that anyway. Secondly was there 'certainty' that both wingers would leave? Young perhaps but I doubt anybody thought Downing would make the U-turn he did. Finally, who's to say that Houllier wouldn't have replaced them with two other good wingers anyway? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I wish houllier well with his health but I really hated him as our manager. Aloof, arrogant, antique, scouse, indifferent. Sure he wasn't helped by a poisonous dressing room, But his condescending demeanour towards the club and the fans was disgracefully unpleasant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I wish houllier well with his health but I really hated him as our manager. Aloof, arrogant, antique, scouse, indifferent. Sure he wasn't helped by a poisonous dressing room, But his condescending demeanour towards the club and the fans was disgracefully unpleasant. If only he'd have had an Aston Villa tattoo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 I wish houllier well with his health but I really hated him as our manager. Aloof, arrogant, antique, scouse, indifferent. Sure he wasn't helped by a poisonous dressing room, But his condescending demeanour towards the club and the fans was disgracefully unpleasant. But true - we didn't like hearing it, but he was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 What exactly did he say that was condescending towards the club and the fans anyway? Obviously the Anfield debacle should've been handled better but was there anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) What exactly did he say that was condescending towards the club and the fans anyway? Obviously the Anfield debacle should've been handled better but was there anything else? Off the top of my head, one was that we were a team he always viewed as a 7th - 12th type club. Apart from a few finishes he is right. Although at the time we' just finished 6th 3 times, but not really far off is it. Edited September 19, 2013 by villan_007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The football under houllier was awful. He ruined everything that was good about us under MoN and did nothing to improve us in any areas. He took a team that has just had its best season in years to not safe after 36 games. He played Ashley young out of position for over 20 games. We were awful at holding on to a lead and pathetic when going behind. It speaks volumes that our two best results of the season were when he was too ill to be anywhere near the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The football under houllier was awful. He ruined everything that was good about us under MoN and did nothing to improve us in any areas. He took a team that has just had its best season in years to not safe after 36 games. He played Ashley young out of position for over 20 games. We were awful at holding on to a lead and pathetic when going behind. It speaks volumes that our two best results of the season were when he was too ill to be anywhere near the players. Because he tried to actually play football the right way and not hoof it forward. We just didn't have the players for that, and Barry / Milner weren't replaced. I don't care what anyone says, the majority of the hatred towards him was just anger and frustration over MON leaving and the 'project' being over, toys out of the pram time for villa fans. It could have been anyone and if results weren't instant they would have gotten the same treatment. Finishing 6th all those times and the cup runs were great, I miss them - but some people are so blind to the mess MON left Behind. And back on topic this is why lambert needs to be given time, otherwise this shiity circle we have been trapped in will just keep going round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 What exactly did he say that was condescending towards the club and the fans anyway? Obviously the Anfield debacle should've been handled better but was there anything else? Off the top of my head, one was that we were a team he always viewed as a 7th - 12th type club. Apart from a few finishes he is right. Although at the time we' just finished 6th 3 times, but not really far off is it. He said we were a 9th to 12th place club. This despite at the time he arrived being the 4th most successful club in terms of trophies won in English football, being 5th in the all time Premier League table and having just finished 6th three seasons on the spin. What he did at Anfield showed the utmost disrespect to this great clubs fantastic supporters. I was there that freezing December night and we out sung his beloved kop despite being served up gutless tripe in a 3-0 defeat. The manager then repays our fantastic support by lording it in front of the kop at full time and totalling ignoring the fans of the club he managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The football under houllier was awful. He ruined everything that was good about us under MoN and did nothing to improve us in any areas. He took a team that has just had its best season in years to not safe after 36 games. He played Ashley young out of position for over 20 games. We were awful at holding on to a lead and pathetic when going behind. It speaks volumes that our two best results of the season were when he was too ill to be anywhere near the players. The football under MON was better then under Houllier...seriously? Also Young was generally played in the No. 10 role because there was nobody better to do it and also Albrighton's form meant he could be moved there without significantly weakening our strength on the wings. To cap it off, Young finished that season with 9 goals and 15 assists. One of his best ever Villa seasons, so what exactly is the problem with how Houllier played him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Houllier has gone with MON, lets talk about the current manager hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 The very fact that houllier had to be persuaded and have his arm twisted to even come here says it all. Crap man manager, crap football and another very expensive error by the clubs custodian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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