Manager Paul Lambert

[VillaCas]

 

The problem with this is (and let me say I don't have a problem if this is our plan, I'm all for it. I'm just thinking out loud) that Dortmund are a big enough club, even before they got to this level, to hold onto those kind of players when they get good.

 

 

Dortmund have had some real sucess especially in the 90s under Hitzfeld and since Klopp has taken over in '07 but they are not a "big club" in CL terms and still are at risk of losing their players to bigger teams. They didn't want Kagawa to go but he went to MU as they are a bigger team, They didn't want Mario Gotze to sign for Bayern but they are a bigger team. Lewandowski is under contract to 2014 but I guarantee that he will be off to a bigger club then, if not before. Klopp himself is likely to move on before his contract expires in 2016

[Stevo985]

 

 

The problem with this is (and let me say I don't have a problem if this is our plan, I'm all for it. I'm just thinking out loud) that Dortmund are a big enough club, even before they got to this level, to hold onto those kind of players when they get good.

 

 

Dortmund have had some real sucess especially in the 90s under Hitzfeld and since Klopp has taken over in '07 but they are not a "big club" in CL terms and still are at risk of losing their players to bigger teams. They didn't want Kagawa to go but he went to MU as they are a bigger team, They didn't want Mario Gotze to sign for Bayern but they are a bigger team. Lewandowski is under contract to 2014 but I guarantee that he will be off to a bigger club then, if not before. Klopp himself is likely to move on before his contract expires in 2016

 

That's my point. They're not huge (well they are now but they weren't a few years back) but they're big enough to hang on to these players for 2 or 3 seasons.

 

Where we currently are, one great season from a player and he's probably gone, unfortunately.

 

It's going to take a while for us to build ourselves back up to a level where we can hold onto good players for a few seasons (as depressing as that is)

[Morpheus]

 

With our present squad starting the season under another manager such as Jol, Redknapp or Martinez, i believe we would be in a better position.

 

Those managers would not have made the elementary mistakes that Lambert has and would have identified the correct system to play with the players we have available. 

 

Redknapp is a good manager but he didn't work the wonders many predicted at QPR despite sizeable investment. I don't personally think Martinez or Jol would have done better with the same resources here either. Hughes was supposed to be the dogs dick until he was exposed at QPR.

 

It's also laughable that you have the hubris to think that you have spotted the "elementary mistakes" and "correct system" that Lambert and his entire coaching staff have missed. Lambert has years of experience of CL level football and works with the players day in, day out and yet you truly believe that you have a much better grasp of the tactics, systems, selections and transfers than him.

 

Agreed concerning Redknapp and i did think he would have done better than he has although he has been more than a little unlucky with circumstances surrounding his tenure there. If he stays at QPR and is allowed to build his own team in the Championship i have no doubt he will bring them back up again and then cement a place in the Premiership.

 

Concerning Lambert and the correct system.

 

By no means have i been arrogant enough to suggest that i would know better than a manager with Lambert's experience. If you look at my posts i have put my criticism of Lambert's system choice in the context of what other Premiership managers may have done given the same circumstances during pre-season and the start of this season.

 

I have been consistent in my debate in that i feel Lambert has tried to do things too quickly and in doing that has achieved the wrong balance of youth v experience. The Premiership is far less forgiving than the Championship!

 

I also feel with having someone like Bent at our club he could have utilised him better and actually set the team up to play to his strengths by purchasing the right type of players to supply him (better wide players). Indeed you could also argue that replacing Benteke with Bent could have achieved the same goal return and used that 7M spent on Benteke to purchase the quality DM we still so badly need.

 

This is what i meant by mentioning other managers who might have utilised our resources better.

 

We have all been involved in the debate of bringing the wage structure down and the suggested limited transfer funding Lambert has been given. Taking that into consideration it should have been gradual change, say over three seasons than trying to re-structure our defence and midfield in one and if our chairman expected the reduction in wages with our high wage earners shipped out in one season and replaced with lower league players or players not used to the rigours of the Premiership then he is also very much to blame for where we are at the moment!   

Edited April 25, 2013 by Morpheus

[Zatman]

Lambo sometimes gets his tactics a lil careless. The team against united for example was far too attacking. In those kind of games we have to line up snit more negativity. We really need to learn to hold the ball and frustrate teams

 

but we cant do negativity. Sitting back could have ended up a cricket score. we had to fight fire with fire

[Papillon]

For every argument that is pro to Lambert, saying we are an attacking side is just bewildering.

 

We are NOT an attacking side, we do not play attacking and/or possession football. We kind of play the counter at times, but that is mostly because we are always under pressure and because we cannot seem to score in established attack. This of course due to lack of good passers in the side, lack of clever runs and lack of players inside the right half of the pitch.

 

Time and time again pundits from the UK to Scandinavia name us amongst the most dull sides in the league, and that is for a reason. Lambert can say what he wants in terms of us being an attacking side, but you have to walk the walk as well. We have scored 36 goals, only a few teams have scored less - and we have let in a massive 63 goals.

 

I respect every well put argument towards Lambert, but saying a positive side this season is our attacking play is not one of them. Better than McLeish? If we saw every game and didn't know who managed the side these two seasons I doubt many would see a difference.

[Zatman]

cant agree. recently a lot of journalists are saying we are playing really good football adn eb a shame to lose a young attacking team like us if we go down. was said a lot after Stoke game

Edited April 25, 2013 by Zatman

[Woodytom]

We have definitely got attacking options. We could have had 4 or 5 at OT. Benteke (twice), Weimann (twice) and KEA all had very close efforts. On another day 1,2 or maybe 3 go in and its a different story.

 

The problem is by the time of Weimanns first chance (the 2nd of the 5), we are 3 down. And that is because our midfield and defence are awful (of course the opposition/officials played a part). We have absolutely no composure on the ball, the positioning is dreadful, and the tendency to all chase the same ball is embarrasing going on comical. We have absolutely no ability in keeping the ball (and never have) and that is why we rarely beat the bigger teams - and when we do, its a smash n grab 95% of the time.

[Papillon]

We have definitely got attacking options. We could have had 4 or 5 at OT. Benteke (twice), Weimann (twice) and KEA all had very close efforts. On another day 1,2 or maybe 3 go in and its a different story.

 

The problem is by the time of Weimanns first chance (the 2nd of the 5), we are 3 down. And that is because our midfield and defence are awful (of course the opposition/officials played a part). We have absolutely no composure on the ball, the positioning is dreadful, and the tendency to all chase the same ball is embarrasing going on comical. We have absolutely no ability in keeping the ball (and never have) and that is why we rarely beat the bigger teams - and when we do, its a smash n grab 95% of the time.

 

That is pretty naive bro, 4 or 5? Football isn't that easy, a team like ours needs 4 or 5 chances in average to score a goal, Man Utd obviously less as they have far superior players in every position. We had a few half-chances and probably could have scored 1 goal, but we also know Man Utd let in very few goals. Besides, since we created all those chances you speak of - did we also forsake our defensive duties in a naive way? Perhaps that is why we let in so few goals, but it is also a travesty to see our goals scored this season which is way below average.

[Big_John_10]

I have to give Lambert some credit for our improvement in attack.

Since switching to a formation that suits us better we average 1.6 goals a game.

Much better than it was previously.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

We're an entertaining side to watch because we let in goals; it's an embarrassment.

 

Our only hope is hanging on one other team now, that is how bad we are. I do sort of agree with Morpheus in some ways as I often wonder had Lambert built the team around Bent would we be in a better position? It's been a massive gamble to go with Benteke and as good as he has been we just don't know whether that ultimately will be what contributes to our downfall.

[Zatman]

We're an entertaining side to watch because we let in goals; it's an embarrassment.

 

Our only hope is hanging on one other team now, that is how bad we are. I do sort of agree with Morpheus in some ways as I often wonder had Lambert built the team around Bent would we be in a better position? It's been a massive gamble to go with Benteke and as good as he has been we just don't know whether that ultimately will be what contributes to our downfall.

 

really? Benteke has done more in 8 months than Bent in 2 seasons and without his goals we would be probably gone already.

 

their is many criticisms of Lambert but this isnt one of them

[Pelle]

For every argument that is pro to Lambert, saying we are an attacking side is just bewildering.

 

We are NOT an attacking side, we do not play attacking and/or possession football. We kind of play the counter at times, but that is mostly because we are always under pressure and because we cannot seem to score in established attack. This of course due to lack of good passers in the side, lack of clever runs and lack of players inside the right half of the pitch.

 

Time and time again pundits from the UK to Scandinavia name us amongst the most dull sides in the league, and that is for a reason. Lambert can say what he wants in terms of us being an attacking side, but you have to walk the walk as well. We have scored 36 goals, only a few teams have scored less - and we have let in a massive 63 goals.

 

I respect every well put argument towards Lambert, but saying a positive side this season is our attacking play is not one of them. Better than McLeish? If we saw every game and didn't know who managed the side these two seasons I doubt many would see a difference.

 

 

I can't agree at all and I wonder which pundits you've been listening too as they clearly ain't the same as I've listened to. And to say that we play exactly the same way as under AML makes me actually wonder if you've seen any of our games. I won't say that this season is better, but it's kind of night and day between the two styles. Not even remotely the same.

[Big_John_10]

We're an entertaining side to watch because we let in goals; it's an embarrassment.

 

Our only hope is hanging on one other team now, that is how bad we are. I do sort of agree with Morpheus in some ways as I often wonder had Lambert built the team around Bent would we be in a better position? It's been a massive gamble to go with Benteke and as good as he has been we just don't know whether that ultimately will be what contributes to our downfall.

I don't see how Benteke can take the blame for our poor defence or how Bent playing could have improved it.

[Woodytom]

 

We have definitely got attacking options. We could have had 4 or 5 at OT. Benteke (twice), Weimann (twice) and KEA all had very close efforts. On another day 1,2 or maybe 3 go in and its a different story.

 

The problem is by the time of Weimanns first chance (the 2nd of the 5), we are 3 down. And that is because our midfield and defence are awful (of course the opposition/officials played a part). We have absolutely no composure on the ball, the positioning is dreadful, and the tendency to all chase the same ball is embarrasing going on comical. We have absolutely no ability in keeping the ball (and never have) and that is why we rarely beat the bigger teams - and when we do, its a smash n grab 95% of the time.

 

That is pretty naive bro, 4 or 5? Football isn't that easy, a team like ours needs 4 or 5 chances in average to score a goal, Man Utd obviously less as they have far superior players in every position. We had a few half-chances and probably could have scored 1 goal, but we also know Man Utd let in very few goals. Besides, since we created all those chances you speak of - did we also forsake our defensive duties in a naive way? Perhaps that is why we let in so few goals, but it is also a travesty to see our goals scored this season which is way below average.

 

 

Where did I imply that it was easy. All I said was that we 'could' have had 4 or 5 - as I believe all 5 were v close to going in.

 

The Benteke chance, Weimann off the line and a top class save from De Gea from KEA, were all very very close. My point was that at OT we created 4 r 5 very good opportunities and this implies we can attack.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Woodytom

[Keyblade]

Yep, it was a bit naive by PL to try that formation. With Man U putting out a strong team to try and win the trophy then and there, he should have played a 5-3-2, to mitigate their pressure somewhat. 

 

Don't let Big John see you write that  .

[KennyPowers]

Look at our attacking options: Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Bent, N'Zogbia. 

 

How many teams in the league would trade their top 5 attackers for those 5. I would guess all but 6 teams would. 

 

I am in agreement with the general consensus that attacking wise, we have looked good since January playing pretty consistently 4-2-3-1. Also, that the problems are central midfield and defence. 

 

Quite simply how many teams would trade for our central midfielders? Or our defence? Maybe Reading would but that's it. Quite simply half the team is abysmal (relatively speaking, compared to the rest of the league). 

 

A top 7 attack, a bottom 3 defence, a top 10 keeper. It's quite honestly a very confused squad we have right now. I'm sure Lambert realises this and hopefully we stay up and he addresses it in the summer even if it means selling Benteke to raise funds. 

[Big_John_10]

Yep, it was a bit naive by PL to try that formation. With Man U putting out a strong team to try and win the trophy then and there, he should have played a 5-3-2, to mitigate their pressure somewhat.

 

Don't let Big John see you write that  .

I did see it and had to count to 10!!!

TBH I don't think our formation would have made much difference against man u. We still let in a lot of goals when playing that defensive formation earlier.

[VillaCas]

 

 

With our present squad starting the season under another manager such as Jol, Redknapp or Martinez, i believe we would be in a better position.

 

Those managers would not have made the elementary mistakes that Lambert has and would have identified the correct system to play with the players we have available. 

 

Redknapp is a good manager but he didn't work the wonders many predicted at QPR despite sizeable investment. I don't personally think Martinez or Jol would have done better with the same resources here either. Hughes was supposed to be the dogs dick until he was exposed at QPR.

 

It's also laughable that you have the hubris to think that you have spotted the "elementary mistakes" and "correct system" that Lambert and his entire coaching staff have missed. Lambert has years of experience of CL level football and works with the players day in, day out and yet you truly believe that you have a much better grasp of the tactics, systems, selections and transfers than him.

 

Agreed concerning Redknapp and i did think he would have done better than he has although he has been more than a little unlucky with circumstances surrounding his tenure there. If he stays at QPR and is allowed to build his own team in the Championship i have no doubt he will bring them back up again and then cement a place in the Premiership - I should f***in hope he could get moneybags QPR out of the Championship. No achievement that

 

Concerning Lambert and the correct system.

 

By no means have i been arrogant enough to suggest that i would know better than a manager with Lambert's experience. If you look at my posts i have put my criticism of Lambert's system choice in the context of what other Premiership managers may have done given the same circumstances during pre-season and the start of this season.

 

I have been consistent in my debate in that i feel Lambert has tried to do things too quickly and in doing that has achieved the wrong balance of youth v experience. The Premiership is far less forgiving than the Championship! - Surprisingly, I agree with you here. In my opinion PL has tried to do things too quickly (although we have no idea of the brief he had been given which may have influenced this)

 

I also feel with having someone like Bent at our club he could have utilised him better and actually set the team up to play to his strengths by purchasing the right type of players to supply him (better wide players). Indeed you could also argue that replacing Benteke with Bent could have achieved the same goal return and used that 7M spent on Benteke to purchase the quality DM we still so badly need - I just don't buy into the idea of purchasing players just to support Bent. Anyway, I heard that Bent was due to leave but that the deal fell through. We do need a DM and Lambert would have signed one in January had he been allowed. You could criticise him for not getting one at the start of the season but I think he wanted to see what he had on the books already in midfield - maybe he thought Gardner could do a job for him or that he could come up with a combination utilising Holman, Ireland etc

 

This is what i meant by mentioning other managers who might have utilised our resources better - We'll never know will we. What we do know is that Hughes who was touted as a possible manager and Redknapp who I think you championed didnt "utilise their resources" too well. 

 

We have all been involved in the debate of bringing the wage structure down and the suggested (suggested???) limited transfer funding Lambert has been given. Taking that into consideration it should have been gradual change, say over three seasons than trying to re-structure our defence and midfield in one and if our chairman expected the reduction in wages with our high wage earners shipped out in one season and replaced with lower league players or players not used to the rigours of the Premiership then he is also very much to blame for where we are at the moment! I think you may be on to something with this one. Managers come and go quickly in the modern game, given that Lambert naturally wants to move quickly and make an impact and I don't blame him for that - it is up to the Chairman and the CEO to set the parameters and ensure that the longer term interests of the club are not harmed. At the moment they are on a knife-edge. Stay up and the gamble to change quickly has worked, go down and it's massively failed. For me the downside far outweighs the upside and we should have been more conservative with the changes

 

We are 17th and that's not good enough, however we have definitely improved this year and I beleive will have just enough to survive. I think you think that I would support PL no matter what, but that is not the case. We desperately need some consistency and nothing will be achieved by appointing a fifth (seventh??) manager in as many years.

 

 

[VillaCas]

For every argument that is pro to Lambert, saying we are an attacking side is just bewildering.

 

We are NOT an attacking side, we do not play attacking and/or possession football. We kind of play the counter at times, but that is mostly because we are always under pressure and because we cannot seem to score in established attack. This of course due to lack of good passers in the side, lack of clever runs and lack of players inside the right half of the pitch.

 

Time and time again pundits from the UK to Scandinavia name us amongst the most dull sides in the league, and that is for a reason. Lambert can say what he wants in terms of us being an attacking side, but you have to walk the walk as well. We have scored 36 goals, only a few teams have scored less - and we have let in a massive 63 goals.

 

I respect every well put argument towards Lambert, but saying a positive side this season is our attacking play is not one of them. Better than McLeish? If we saw every game and didn't know who managed the side these two seasons I doubt many would see a difference.

 

Nonsense - In fact many pundits are saying that they hope we stay up

 

If being named as one of the most dull sides in the league is happening time and time again perhaps you can provide a link to one of your many examples

 

[Morpheus]

 

 

 

With our present squad starting the season under another manager such as Jol, Redknapp or Martinez, i believe we would be in a better position.

 

Those managers would not have made the elementary mistakes that Lambert has and would have identified the correct system to play with the players we have available. 

 

Redknapp is a good manager but he didn't work the wonders many predicted at QPR despite sizeable investment. I don't personally think Martinez or Jol would have done better with the same resources here either. Hughes was supposed to be the dogs dick until he was exposed at QPR.

 

It's also laughable that you have the hubris to think that you have spotted the "elementary mistakes" and "correct system" that Lambert and his entire coaching staff have missed. Lambert has years of experience of CL level football and works with the players day in, day out and yet you truly believe that you have a much better grasp of the tactics, systems, selections and transfers than him.

 

Agreed concerning Redknapp and i did think he would have done better than he has although he has been more than a little unlucky with circumstances surrounding his tenure there. If he stays at QPR and is allowed to build his own team in the Championship i have no doubt he will bring them back up again and then cement a place in the Premiership - I should f***in hope he could get moneybags QPR out of the Championship. No achievement that

 

Concerning Lambert and the correct system.

 

By no means have i been arrogant enough to suggest that i would know better than a manager with Lambert's experience. If you look at my posts i have put my criticism of Lambert's system choice in the context of what other Premiership managers may have done given the same circumstances during pre-season and the start of this season.

 

I have been consistent in my debate in that i feel Lambert has tried to do things too quickly and in doing that has achieved the wrong balance of youth v experience. The Premiership is far less forgiving than the Championship! - Surprisingly, I agree with you here. In my opinion PL has tried to do things too quickly (although we have no idea of the brief he had been given which may have influenced this)

 

I also feel with having someone like Bent at our club he could have utilised him better and actually set the team up to play to his strengths by purchasing the right type of players to supply him (better wide players). Indeed you could also argue that replacing Benteke with Bent could have achieved the same goal return and used that 7M spent on Benteke to purchase the quality DM we still so badly need - I just don't buy into the idea of purchasing players just to support Bent. Anyway, I heard that Bent was due to leave but that the deal fell through. We do need a DM and Lambert would have signed one in January had he been allowed. You could criticise him for not getting one at the start of the season but I think he wanted to see what he had on the books already in midfield - maybe he thought Gardner could do a job for him or that he could come up with a combination utilising Holman, Ireland etc

 

This is what i meant by mentioning other managers who might have utilised our resources better - We'll never know will we. What we do know is that Hughes who was touted as a possible manager and Redknapp who I think you championed didnt "utilise their resources" too well. 

 

We have all been involved in the debate of bringing the wage structure down and the suggested (suggested???) limited transfer funding Lambert has been given. Taking that into consideration it should have been gradual change, say over three seasons than trying to re-structure our defence and midfield in one and if our chairman expected the reduction in wages with our high wage earners shipped out in one season and replaced with lower league players or players not used to the rigours of the Premiership then he is also very much to blame for where we are at the moment! I think you may be on to something with this one. Managers come and go quickly in the modern game, given that Lambert naturally wants to move quickly and make an impact and I don't blame him for that - it is up to the Chairman and the CEO to set the parameters and ensure that the longer term interests of the club are not harmed. At the moment they are on a knife-edge. Stay up and the gamble to change quickly has worked, go down and it's massively failed. For me the downside far outweighs the upside and we should have been more conservative with the changes

 

We are 17th and that's not good enough, however we have definitely improved this year and I beleive will have just enough to survive. I think you think that I would support PL no matter what, but that is not the case. We desperately need some consistency and nothing will be achieved by appointing a fifth (seventh??) manager in as many years.

 

 

 

Agree with your last point that we have just enough to survive but if we don't, i'm not sure it's right to give Lambert another year based solely on how many managers we've had in a short space of time. For me he has already made too many elementary mistakes this season and relegation should be the final nail in the coffin concerning his tenure with us.

 

Of course there are those who are going to say that he has a history of promotion but it doesn't necessarily follow that he would do that with us and i don't think theres a strong enough base with the players left if Bent, Benteke, Weimann and Vlaar were to leave to get us out of the championship anyway.