Manager Paul Lambert

[Big_John_10]

Well like I say. You don't seem to have any issues with the owner or the manager but here we are having one of our worst seasons so how is your argument reasoned or balanced?

And please tell me how mine isn't. I'd love to know.

[VillaCas]

Straw man argument from Villacas, not a great post at all.

No-one except maybe a handful of posters think it's "all RL's fault". Even a cursory reading of the threads on this site would show a very broad analysis of the causes of our decline. So it's obviously easy (though a bit pointless) to knock down that argument.

The key point is that Lambert is the man at the helm right now - he took on the job so has responsibility for our results now. He is making a series of tactical and selection mistakes and has overseen some very poor performances and results indeed. He and he alone can put this right and he is not showing too much grasp of how he will do it. His main hope seems to be that if we go on playing with spirit, we will come good. But I can cite you many spirited teams who sank from the premier league without trace.

Anyway, that's the way it is right now and endless talk about how it's all the "fault" of others won't alter the fact that he's got to get us out of it.

I was accused of placing all the blame on RL - my post was in response to that

[VillaCas]

So why are you arguing with anyone who points out those mistakes?

If people point out genuine mistakes I don't argue with them

- I can't understand why Bannan takes those floaty corners

- I think KEA so far looks a poor buy

- I don't know the reasons why PL didnt buy a DM

- I would have preferred to batten down the hatches against Chelsea and Spurs rather than carry on attacking

- I think PL could be better at communicating with the fans. The constant "We go again" irritates me

- If it was me I would have played a four in midfield and pushed Weimann up alongside Benteke

etc etc etc

However,

1) there may be good reasons why certain things happen which I don't understand

2) I think the "mistakes" that are made are not the reason we are in the position we are in

3) I would think that every manager in the league can be second-guessed by the internet "experts" in the same way

If Roberto Mancini took over the squad McL left and had the same budget for fees and wages he couldn't do any better. People who say "PL should have signed better more experienced players" or (my favourite) "We should have signed Berbatov, Adam, Diame etc" must think that Lambert is stupid.

I hoped that we would appoint OGS or Gus Poyet in the summer but I'm very happy with PL and i'll keep supporting him

Edited January 14, 2013 by VillaCas

[TRO]

I don't remember Jack walker exactly being the "David Dein" of Football, but what he did do was provide the funds for Kenny Dalglish to do his stuff.

Randy Lerner for me has provided enough funds ( 200 mill) for us to have made a better fist of it.

Despite one or two obvious signings the rest has been poor. we all know managers make ricks in the transfer market our record has been scandalous.

Whether those signings in their entirety were poor or whether as a club we failed to get the best from them its for you to make your judgement. Under Ron saunders and his staff Journeymen wre made in to stars, that skill factor has long departed from Villa Park.

Edited January 14, 2013 by TRO

[TRO]

I don't blame Randy for failing to provide funds, but I do blame him for parting with Richard Fitzgerald.

I also think Steve Stride went too quickly too.... these guys had oodles of experience that the club has simply lost.

The nous is missing from every corner of the club.

[Big_John_10]

Randy Lerner for me has provided enough funds ( 200 mill) for us to have made a better fist of it.

I just can't agree with this argument.

If Abramovich spent the next 3 years selling Chelsea's best players, had an incredibly low net spend replacing them with players on much lower wages and hired two shit managers no one would be talking about the total amount of money he's spent and saying he should still expect Chelsea to be a top team.

[CrackpotForeigner]

Edit:Accidental favourable response to a post from way back. Silly me.

Edited January 14, 2013 by CrackpotForeigner

[TRO]

I just can't agree with this argument.

If Abramovich spent the next 3 years selling Chelsea's best players, had an incredibly low net spend replacing them with players on much lower wages and hired two shit managers no one would be talking about the total amount of money he's spent and saying he should still expect Chelsea to be a top team.

John, Abramovich is not a typical example and you know it.

The other thing is our best players were sold to fund the bad ones.... There seems to be a complete denial on how many bad ones we bought. its been horrendous.

HDE was bad enough on this subject ,but he had no where near the poor return Lerner has had to endure.

[Big_John_10]

I'm just using an owner who has spent money as an example.

If they spend well and then have 3 years of not spending, lowering wages and hiring very poor managers you can't look at what they spent years before and say they currently deserve better.

[TRO]

Am I missing something?

we talk about Young, Downing and Milner as if they were in a championship winning team that was totally irreplaceable... not being ungrateful but we finished 6th playing smash & grab football struggling to keep control of a game and winning on the break and mainly away from home. looks great now, granted.... but damp pizza is good when you are starving.its all relative.

I remember losing Gray, Deehan and Gidman.... not an eye brow raised. We went out and bought Withe & Swain, with shaw coming in from the stiffs.

Nothing fazed us in those days even without money... we jusy got on with it, mainly because the manager and his staff, dealt with it.

[Kiwivillan]

I just can't agree with this argument.

If Abramovich spent the next 3 years selling Chelsea's best players, had an incredibly low net spend replacing them with players on much lower wages and hired two shit managers no one would be talking about the total amount of money he's spent and saying he should still expect Chelsea to be a top team.

Are you seriously comparing Lerner with Abramovich in such an overly simplistic way?

[Big_John_10]

The manager and his staff.

And who appointed two awful back to back managers?

We're talking about 2 and a half years of cut backs, lowered wages and poor managers destroying our team.

And who put all that in place?

[Big_John_10]

Are you seriously comparing Lerner with Abramovich in such an overly simplistic way?

Read the response to TRO.

Regardless of who the owner is. If they implement a few years of selling best players, cutting wages and hiring awful managers no one would be talking about what they spent years before as an argument for they deserve better.

[TRO]

I'm just using an owner who has spent money as an example.

If they spend well and then have 3 years of not spending, lowering wages and hiring very poor managers you can't look at what they spent years before and say they currently deserve better.

John, I'm not saying Randy has not made mistakes or is the perfect owner, but what I am saying is if it had of been YOUR money spent on these players, we would probably be cutting you down from some bridge/tree.

I remember Ken McNaught arriving and we had to wait c 20 games for him to settle, that was a major set back in those days ( a talking point in the pubs)because most players were improving beyond recognition after a short time.

We have had c 30- 40 players who have got worse since they joined us in the last 6-7 years... we have lost fortunes on players, who we have simply failed to sell on....That for any reasonably wedged owner is unsustainable.

Abramovich and Mansour are very much exceptions.... but I would wager they have not had to endure the losses of amortisation we have.

[Kiwivillan]

Read the response to TRO.

Regardless of who the owner is. If they implement a few years of selling best players, cutting wages and hiring awful managers no one would be talking about what they spent years before as an argument for they deserve better.

You got me. Lerner is completely machiavellian rubbing his hands with glee when we sold Barry, Young, and Milner. Or it could be that the players wanted to leave to better teams. Hmm... Is it possible that average players were enticed with inflated wages because MON wanted his man and Lerner trusted his judgement?

[TRO]

The manager and his staff.

And who appointed two awful back to back managers?

We're talking about 2 and a half years of cut backs, lowered wages and poor managers destroying our team.

And who put all that in place?

John, The manager appointment I will grant you your arguement and say yes it is his fault, but there again to be fair to him he backed them.

I think the Mcleish appointment was good money chasing bad money.... major mistake, but the record of poor return on signings was well under way and the door being shut was too late the horse had bolted.

[TRO]

You got me. Lerner is completely machiavellian rubbing his hands with glee when we sold Barry, Young, and Milner. Or it could be that the players wanted to leave to better teams. Hmm... Is it possible that average players were enticed with inflated wages because MON wanted his man and Lerner trusted his judgement?

hush your mouth and say 2 hail mary's for blasphemy.

[Big_John_10]

You got me. Lerner is completely machiavellian rubbing his hands with glee when we sold Barry, Young, and Milner. Or it could be that the players wanted to leave to better teams. Hmm... Is it possible that average players were enticed with inflated wages because MON wanted his man and Lerner trusted his judgement?

Wow, sarcasm to defend our owner. Have you been watching the last two years?

And what's the rest of your post got to do with what I'm saying.

If any owner spent money then did what Lerner has done over the past few years you wouldn't ignore those recent years and claim he deserved better because of what he did years ago.

[TRO]

Read the response to TRO.

Regardless of who the owner is. If they implement a few years of selling best players, cutting wages and hiring awful managers no one would be talking about what they spent years before as an argument for they deserve better.

John... all those austerity measures was forced up on him. It was his only reaction to a leaky bucket... patch it. where the denial is so hard for most to understand is Yes.... its got worse instead of better.

It will take years to get out of this mess unless we have a purple run of signing players that are going to get better as a result of joining us as opposed to getting worse as has been the case.

Edited January 14, 2013 by TRO

[Big_John_10]

John, The manager appointment I will grant you your arguement and say yes it is his fault, but there again to be fair to him he backed them.

I think the Mcleish appointment was good money chasing bad money.... major mistake, but the record of poor return on signings was well under way and the door being shut was too late the horse had bolted.

I don't think Lerner has had brilliant value for money with the signings we've made. But that's not the reason we are in a mess.

You said in your other post about how we've recovered in the past. We had the opportunity to recover after MON but again Lerner **** things up, cutting costs too quickly and appointing terrible managers.

Look at the mess we're in. Look at how he failed with the browns. Lerner is not the unluckiest owner in sports. To fail with two sports teams in two different sports shows a real level of shitness.