dudevillaisnice Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 For me he has a reputation for moving on to bigger clubs. I don't have a problem with that. For him to move on to a bigger club than us he will have had to have done an excellent job here and that would mean getting us back in and around the top 6 and some long cup runs. If he does that there will only be a handful of bigger clubs for him to move on to. To get us competing again in the upper third of the league is going to take time and in that regard I guess he knows it is a long term project and that until he has achieved that he is unlikely to get any offers from bigger clubs. Yeah fair point and it's something I accept too as it would mean the club as a whole would be in a better situation if/when he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I've no issues with Bent being left out of the starting line up - I totally see why, but to leave him out of the squad when fit is bizarre, particularly as the writer points out, all it does is decimate his value in terms of a January sale even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2012 I don't have a problem with that. For him to move on to a bigger club than us he will have had to have done an excellent job here and that would mean getting us back in and around the top 6 and some long cup runs. If he does that there will only be a handful of bigger clubs for him to move on to. I agree with all your post, you've a similar view to me on this by the look of it. The above part I've quoted though is really the rub of it for me. I once thought we could compete for the top 4, I no longer think that is true, without an Oil rich benefactor it is simply beyond us. So what you've posted above represents just about the best we can realistically hope for. Football is **** as a competitive sport when the best you can hope for is that your manager performs well enough to get poached for a bigger job. Yet if Lambert gets poached in a couple of years I think it will be a relief as it will mean we aren't the shambles of a club that he inherited when he arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 Agree entirely Trent. And to pre-empt the inevitable comment that we might just collapse again like we did when MON left, that was due to the need to cut back on all the oney MON had spent (rightly or wrongly) and effectively dismantling the squad. With the approach we are now appearing to take, and with the way Lambert is building a team, we would be in a much better position if and when he left for a new manager to pick up where Lambert left off, rather than having to start all over again like we've had to do recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2012 With the approach we are now appearing to take, and with the way Lambert is building a team, we would be in a much better position if and when he left for a new manager to pick up where Lambert left off, rather than having to start all over again like we've had to do recently. In theory...... that doesn't allow for the Lerner factor, **** knows what decision he would make next time when faced with having to select a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 In theory...... that doesn't allow for the Lerner factor, **** knows what decision he would make next time when faced with having to select a manager. Granted. BUt we'd still be in a better position. For example, if MCLeish, as shit as he is/was, had been able to take over MON's squad without selling anyone, you'd think he'd have done a lot better than he did. Yes the managerial choices were poor (exceptionally poor in AMC's case), but I'd say it was the cutbacks that were the main hinderance in the last 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2012 For example, if MCLeish, as shit as he is/was, had been able to take over MON's squad without selling anyone, you'd think he'd have done a lot better than he did. Honestly? I think that guy could manage Brazil and still play turgid **** awful football but I get your point. Yes the managerial choices were poor (exceptionally poor in AMC's case), but I'd say it was the cutbacks that were the main hinderance in the last 2 seasons A little of A and a little of B, I'm not sure how to split them. With a better appointment of manager(s) perhaps the cuts could have been better managed who knows. Best not get me started on Lerner and his decisions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 Honestly? I think that guy could manage Brazil and still play turgid **** awful football but I get your point. Oh yeah. It would be awful football. But it might have been the awful football that got Blues into the top half as opposed to the awful football that nearly got us relegated A little of A and a little of B, I'm not sure how to split them. With a better appointment of manager(s) perhaps the cuts could have been better managed who knows. Best not get me started on Lerner and his decisions though. Yeah you're right. Point is, if it's better managed this time around, you rule out column A, and it's purely down to managerial choice. If he **** that up then he **** that up, but at least there aren't 2 detrimental factors to contend with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Granted. BUt we'd still be in a better position. For example, if MCLeish, as shit as he is/was, had been able to take over MON's squad without selling anyone, you'd think he'd have done a lot better than he did. Yes the managerial choices were poor (exceptionally poor in AMC's case), but I'd say it was the cutbacks that were the main hinderance in the last 2 seasons Your taking it for granted then that Lambert is going to be a success here with no margin for error? Whilst your confidence can be commended, he has shown nothing yet to suggest that he will indeed be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 We're assuming we'll be miles better off because we're assuming Lambert can get us back up to the top 6 on low wages and low fees. I don't think that's possible. There's going to come a point where we need to attract better with higher wages or keep these cheap young players in a few years by offering bigger wages. We may be in a better situation in regards to the age of our squad players and finding it easier to move them on but if we do end up back in the top 6 our wage bill won't be as low as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 Your taking it for granted then that Lambert is going to be a success here with no margin for error? We were talking in terms of the scenario markavfc mentioned in his post I don't have a problem with that. For him to move on to a bigger club than us he will have had to have done an excellent job here and that would mean getting us back in and around the top 6 and some long cup runs. If he does that there will only be a handful of bigger clubs for him to move on to. So yes. In the context of the discussion, I was assuming Lambert would be a success. In reality, I do hope and think he will be a success here. But I don't assume he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 We're assuming we'll be miles better off because we're assuming Lambert can get us back up to the top 6 on low wages and low fees. I don't think that's possible. There's going to come a point where we need to attract better with higher wages or keep these cheap young players in a few years by offering bigger wages. We may be in a better situation in regards to the age of our squad players and finding it easier to move them on but if we do end up back in the top 6 our wage bill won't be as low as it is now. I don't think its possible either I don't think Lerner wants us to be top 6 as that would require significant investment on his part I think the goals set by Lerner is for Lambert to make us a stable midtable outfit.... Nothing more with the odd cup run thrown in I suppose in January we will see how much Lambert will be backed by the board i'd expect at least to the tune of 20 - 30 million considering were missing about 5 - 6 "quality" players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2012 I didn't think anyone thought top 6 was still on the agenda for the club or even on the radar. Top half, a low wage bill and making a profit on players where we can while Randy gets his money back before selling would be about the sum of the ambitions these days in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 We were talking in terms of the scenario markavfc mentioned in his post So yes. In the context of the discussion, I was assuming Lambert would be a success. In reality, I do hope and think he will be a success here. But I don't assume he will. We were talking in terms of the scenario markavfc mentioned in his post So yes. In the context of the discussion, I was assuming Lambert would be a success. In reality, I do hope and think he will be a success here. But I don't assume he will. Ok fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Yeah agree with that. I haven't seen much to suggest otherwise over the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I've no issues with Bent being left out of the starting line up - I totally see why, but to leave him out of the squad when fit is bizarre, particularly as the writer points out, all it does is decimate his value in terms of a January sale even further. Unless a deal is already done and his new team don't want him injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I didn't think anyone thought top 6 was still on the agenda for the club or even on the radar. Top half, a low wage bill and making a profit on players where we can while Randy gets his money back before selling would be about the sum of the ambitions these days in my view. I don't think Lerner wants us to be top 6 as that would require significant investment on his part I think the goals set by Lerner is for Lambert to make us a stable midtable outfit.... Nothing more with the odd cup run thrown in This has been my concern that someone like Lambert would accept mid table as an acheivement while other managers wouldn't. I generally think that Lerner has done very well to drive the expectation around our club down that we now would indeed be happy with a mid table finish and i wonder has he been selective in his choice of manager to accomplish that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I hope bent is on the bench tonight. I thought the arsenal game was an opportunity for 3 points towards the end and having someone like bent coming off the bench could nick a goal. Hopefully he can do something tonight. Although he deserved to be dropped and performances have been quite good. We're not scoring enough and there has to come a point where the manager has to find a way to make it work with one of the leagues best goal scorers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I don't think its possible either I don't think Lerner wants us to be top 6 as that would require significant investment on his part I think the goals set by Lerner is for Lambert to make us a stable midtable outfit.... Nothing more with the odd cup run thrown in I suppose in January we will see how much Lambert will be backed by the board i'd expect at least to the tune of 20 - 30 million considering were missing about 5 - 6 "quality" players I think that this is probably right - Lerner has downgraded his goals and is looking for us to finish 7th-10th (in the longer term) Whilst I've no wish (at all) to see us in a relegation battle at least something interesting is happening and I'm looking forward to games again. I'm not sure what 3 or 4 seasons of 10th place finishes would do for my enthusiasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 This has been my concern that someone like Lambert would accept mid table as an acheivement while other managers wouldn't. I generally think that Lerner has done very well to drive the expectation around our club down that we now would indeed be happy with a mid table finish and i just now wonder has he been selective in his choice of manager to acomplish that? I think we'd be happy with a midtable finish given what's happened in the past 2 seasons. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd be happy with mid table as the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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