CI Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Why dont you compare the first ten games of this season to the second ten, and use that to measure whether or not there has been improvement? We've only played 19. Could do that after Wigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You couldn't hve put it any simpler. Even the most optimistic people must surely realise that the worst attack + the worst defence = going down. Erm, if that was true would we not be bottom? how come we're not bottom? there is something wrong with your equation. We score less than anyone else, and concede more, but somehow four teams have a worse record. Why? I'll give you a clue. for the purposes of the league table, losing 8-0 is more or less the same as losing 1-0, or losing 8-7. What natters is games won, drawn and lost We've only played 19. Could do that after Wigan We've played 23, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 What natters is games won, drawn and lost And that's not very good either. And surely if you continue to score less and concede more than everyone else those things that do matter will continue to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I think its also possible Lamberts Villa will dip in the second half of the season just like McLeishes Villa did. Its been a perplexing year for us. I honestly thought after McLeish left we would be back on our way up the table. Silly I know but thats what I thought. Instead things have got worse results wise but I feel a bit better about our manager. It remains baffling to me how we have now gone for nearly two years with midfield being our clear and obvious weakness and yet it is still not resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) And that's not very good either. And surely if you continue to score less and concede more than everyone else those things that do matter will continue to get worse. not if you concede all your goals in a handful of matches, and are otherwise very good defensively. As has been said, its better to lose one game 8-0, than 8 games 1-0 All that maters is points, all the rest is bollocks frankly Edited December 28, 2012 by PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 What about lack of scoring? The win column is hardly going to improve if our goal scoring doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) Erm, if that was true would we not be bottom? how come we're not bottom? there is something wrong with your equation. We score less than anyone else, and concede more, but somehow four teams have a worse record. Why? I'll give you a clue. for the purposes of the league table, losing 8-0 is more or less the same as losing 1-0, or losing 8-7. What natters is games won, drawn and lost Erm, the number of games won, drawn and lost will ultimately be affected by having the worst attack and the worst defence. Edited December 28, 2012 by pacbuddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Benteke > Heskey (by light years) Vlaar > Collins (by miles) Clark > Cuellar So it's still a ridiculous comparison. Collins has been much better than vlaar this season. Our biggest problem has been that we have come nowhere close to replacing Barry,milner,young,downing,petrov or NRC over the years. Nzogbia,Ireland,Bannan,Delph,Westwood,KEA and Allbrighton are utter shit compared to what we lost. There is no protection for the back four and there is zero creativity going forwards. Having a crap midfield really weakens the team and will be our downfall unless Lambert signs three or four in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I find it strange that ones who keep telling us we're improving are also now telling us this level of record breaking shitness is to be expected. How does that work? Well, if you are genuinely interested, it works like this. There is a ramshackle house. You can keep getting builders who repair the roof and patch stuff up, nice and quick, and in any given period that would seem to be the obvious thing to do. Your living room will never get deluged, you keep the baddies at bay. But all you will end up with is the same ramshackle house and the builders returning over and again to do the same thing. So for a change you decide to tell the builders to stop all that, and you get a guy in to dismantle and gut the whole thing, from top to bottom. You know that when it rains you will get utterly soaked, all the rooms will flood and it will be a mini disaster, but you know that as long as you keep faith with the builder he will end up giving you a far better future. Now that means that overall, in the long run, it is improving, but along the way you have some of the worst floods ever. The guys looking at the other ramshackle houses see them keeping the storms at bay with their Diames and Dembeles and panic that we aren't like them, but in the longer term we will win out. Now you may not agree that PL is the best builder that was available, but a lot think he is, and I am one of them. He did a great job with Norwich, and I have seen a lot since he has been here that confims for me he is the man. The idea that Redknapp or Mark Hughes would undertake the type of job PL is doing is laughable. I am confident that come the summer we will be able to look back at these pages, some of which contain the most infantile stuff (sack him if Wigan beat us !!!), and see a great example of how knee-jerk reactions are best totally ignoreed, as I am sure they will be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I agree about the calls to sack him being knee jerk but i don't agree that in order to improve we need to first experience record lows. I don't see why that's acceptable or deemed as a must happen at all. I also think using Diame and dembele as examples is very poor as both are very talented players that would improve us not just now but over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) Well, if you are genuinely interested, it works like this. There is a ramshackle house. You can keep getting builders who repair the roof and patch stuff up, nice and quick, and in any given period that would seem to be the obvious thing to do. Your living room will never get deluged, you keep the baddies at bay. But all you will end up with is the same ramshackle house and the builders returning over and again to do the same thing. So for a change you decide to tell the builders to stop all that, and you get a guy in to dismantle and gut the whole thing, from top to bottom. You know that when it rains you will get utterly soaked, all the rooms will flood and it will be a mini disaster, but you know that as long as you keep faith with the builder he will end up giving you a far better future. Now that means that overall, in the long run, it is improving, but along the way you have some of the worst floods ever. The guys looking at the other ramshackle houses see them keeping the storms at bay with their Diames and Dembeles and panic that we aren't like them, but in the longer term we will win out. Now you may not agree that PL is the best builder that was available, but a lot think he is, and I am one of them. He did a great job with Norwich, and I have seen a lot since he has been here that confims for me he is the man. The idea that Redknapp or Mark Hughes would undertake the type of job PL is doing is laughable. I am confident that come the summer we will be able to look back at these pages, some of which contain the most infantile stuff (sack him if Wigan beat us !!!), and see a great example of how knee-jerk reactions are best totally ignoreed, as I am sure they will be. I like your analogy. However, there is one major flaw with it. We are still living in the house while all the rooms are flooding and we are getting soaked. The logical thing to do would be to make the house an ideal home in the long term while in the short and medium term making sure it is habitable and won't end up a pile of rubble along the way. Edited December 28, 2012 by pacbuddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I like your analogy. However, there is one major flaw with it. We are still living in the house while all the rooms are flooding and we are getting soaked. The logical thing to do would be to make the house an ideal home in the long term while in the short and medium term making sure it is habitable and won't end up a pile of rubble along the way. Get Mel and Dom in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Well, if you are genuinely interested, it works like this. There is a ramshackle house. You can keep getting builders who repair the roof and patch stuff up, nice and quick, and in any given period that would seem to be the obvious thing to do. Your living room will never get deluged, you keep the baddies at bay. But all you will end up with is the same ramshackle house and the builders returning over and again to do the same thing. So for a change you decide to tell the builders to stop all that, and you get a guy in to dismantle and gut the whole thing, from top to bottom. You know that when it rains you will get utterly soaked, all the rooms will flood and it will be a mini disaster, but you know that as long as you keep faith with the builder he will end up giving you a far better future. Now that means that overall, in the long run, it is improving, but along the way you have some of the worst floods ever. The guys looking at the other ramshackle houses see them keeping the storms at bay with their Diames and Dembeles and panic that we aren't like them, but in the longer term we will win out. Now you may not agree that PL is the best builder that was available, but a lot think he is, and I am one of them. He did a great job with Norwich, and I have seen a lot since he has been here that confims for me he is the man. The idea that Redknapp or Mark Hughes would undertake the type of job PL is doing is laughable. I am confident that come the summer we will be able to look back at these pages, some of which contain the most infantile stuff (sack him if Wigan beat us !!!), and see a great example of how knee-jerk reactions are best totally ignoreed, as I am sure they will be. But what about if you have the wife at the side constantly moaning about how it's all going to go wrong and the builder has done it wrong and she's standing there like constantly on enough for the builder to get put off and try putting the nail where she said it should go even though she knows **** all? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 But what about if you have the wife at the side constantly moaning about how it's all going to go wrong and the builder has done it wrong and she's standing there like constantly on enough for the builder to get put off and try putting the nail where she said it should go even though she knows **** all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) But what about if you have the wife at the side constantly moaning about how it's all going to go wrong and the builder has done it wrong and she's standing there like constantly on enough for the builder to get put off and try putting the nail where she said it should go even though she knows **** all? Morpheus? JK Edited December 28, 2012 by KjParton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I like your analogy. However, there is one major flaw with it. We are still living in the house while all the rooms are flooding and we are getting soaked. The logical thing to do would be to make the house an ideal home in the long term while in the short and medium term making sure it is habitable and won't end up a pile of rubble along the way. That doesn't work, it is what has happened to Club after Club over and over. you either have the big big money or you need something totally different - the 'mix' of both leads to short termism. It is what Villa have done for too long, we get up, to 4th, or 6th, or 8th, we go back, we have a Manager for a year or two, we keep players for a year or two, it is never ending nothingness. Lets just risk and accept those massive floods - and that nagging wife - and let PL give us a real future, (a la Dortmund, for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Erm, if that was true would we not be bottom? how come we're not bottom? there is something wrong with your equation. We score less than anyone else, and concede more, but somehow four teams have a worse record. Why? I'll give you a clue. for the purposes of the league table, losing 8-0 is more or less the same as losing 1-0, or losing 8-7. What natters is games won, drawn and lost We've played 23, League games ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I agree about the calls to sack him being knee jerk but i don't agree that in order to improve we need to first experience record lows. I don't see why that's acceptable or deemed as a must happen at all. I also think using Diame and dembele as examples is very poor as both are very talented players that would improve us not just now but over the next few years. It doesn't matter who it is, the whole point of PL's project, if I read it correctly, is to specifically avoid those players. They alter the balance of all the other aspects too much. The reason we have to also suffer the big deluges is because it has to be a root and branch project with no short term fixes, they undermine it all. The reason Germany became so powerful in post war europe was everything that was there previously was utterley smashed, which meant everything could be started anew. Clubs continue don't they ? If a handful of things are changed each season you can't radically alter anything. It is like adding fresh water to half a glass of old water, it automatically means it is old water. For what PL is trying to do it has to be drastic, which automatically means there will be some drastic events. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Te be fair to fellow Villa fans, calls to sack Lambert if we lose at home to Wigan would be completely reasonable imho. What would that be? Worse start in how many seasons? If anything it is astonishing how firmly we have all been behind the new manager. I remain a Lambert supporter but the results speak for themselves, he has not hit the ground running. I think it will all come good but I certainly respect those fans who think enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Te be fair to fellow Villa fans, calls to sack Lambert if we lose at home to Wigan would be completely reasonable imho. What would that be? Worse start in how many seasons? If anything it is astonishing how firmly we have all been behind the new manager. I remain a Lambert supporter but the results speak for themselves, he has not hit the ground running. I think it will all come good but I certainly respect those fans who think enough is enough. I think it's fantastic how many fans are level-headed enough to see the bigger picture and stick behind Lambert. It may be because of they see the alternative as another McLeish-like disaster (masterstroke in lowering expectations by Lerner). Also, I may be the only one, but I've really enjoyed some of the passing, flowing football we've played this season, with the pinnacle that incisive slice through Liverpool's defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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