pacbuddies Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 But only if we're doing poorly in the league and well in the cups of course. And your point is........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 24, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 24, 2012 Baby, Bathwater. Judge the season as a whole. Yesterday was a disgrace. The season won't be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) And your point is........... Some people will always try and make us look bad. If we were doing poorly in the cups that would suddenly become relevant because it could be used to slate Villa. The only reason why some are dismissing it now is because it doesn't fit their argument and proves that we're not absolute shit like some on here think. Edited December 24, 2012 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) 'some fans have mooted the Cup semi final as a barometer of progress'. This is not a barometer of progress at all. I would remind everyone that Bradford City (from League 2 which is 3 divisions below us) are also at exactly the same stage of the League Cup as we are so are we to compare ourselves as being at the same level as Bradford City? Footballing progress is only measured in the league. You can't just dismiss what we are doing in the cups but I am inclined to agree with you in that the league is our bread and butter and certainly over a season will show how good or bad a team we have been. The cup run is a great distraction at the moment from our troubles in the league. I don't think it should be used as a yardstick as to where we are though. Sha won it two years ago and then went down and no one in their right mind would suggest on the back of that cup win they had progressed during that season. Edited December 24, 2012 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) "Inevitably there will be some harsh lessons along the way. Villa conceded four goals to Southampton and five to Manchester City, as well as losing after leading Manchester United 2-0. The current run, which has also brought them a Capital One Cup semi-final against Bradford City, suggests that they are quick learners." Steve Tongue writing in the \independent before the game yesterday. He's right too. Yesterday was a mismatch. I would predict that if we play them again in February at Wembley it will much, much less of a mismatch. Our players have already shown a great capacity for learning from major setbacks. We should be proud of them, I am Edited December 24, 2012 by PB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Some people will always try and make us look bad. If we were doing poorly in the cups that would suddenly become relevant because it could be used to slate Villa. The only reason why some are dismissing it now is because it doesn't fit their argument and proves that we're not absolute shit like some on here think. You talk absolute tosh. The cup run has nothing to do with our progress and you know that. markavfc40 has made a very good point in his post about SHA winning it 2 years ago and going down so it proves that a good cup run is absolutely no measure of progress. Your argument is flawed and you know it but won't admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I've said all along that the Capital Cup is a bit of a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 You talk absolute tosh. The cup run has nothing to do with our progress and you know that. markavfc40 has made a very good point in his post about SHA winning it 2 years ago and going down so it proves that a good cup run is absolutely no measure of progress. Your argument is flawed and you know it but won't admit it. The cup isn't as important as the league and it's still important. No doubt if we crashed out in the 3rd round people would use it as a stick to beat the manager and the club with, but since we're doing well in it people just dismiss it. SHA won it through luck. They've got to be the worst winners of that cup and I'm not saying that because they're SHA. We've been brilliant in the cup so far. My argument is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The cup isn't as important as the league and it's still important. No doubt if we crashed out in the 3rd round people would use it as a stick to beat the manager and the club with, but since we're doing well in it people just dismiss it. SHA won it through luck. They've got to be the worst winners of that cup and I'm not saying that because they're SHA. We've been brilliant in the cup so far. My argument is fine. So are you saying that Bradford City are on a par with us and they have progressed the same as us? They have also progressed to the semi final of the League Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 So are you saying that Bradford City are on a par with us and they have progressed the same as us? They have also progressed to the semi final of the League Cup. Are you saying Chelsea have not progressed and are on a par with us because they have progressed the same as us? Its a weird argument. Obviously the league is most important by a long shot, but a nice little cup run is a positive development in any context, particularly beating Man City along the way. Put it the other way, if we had been knocked out by Swindon surely that would have been regarded as a negative? I know I would have thought it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Southampton putting 6 past us? when was this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Are you saying Chelsea have not progressed and are on a par with us because they have progressed the same as us? Its a weird argument. Obviously the league is most important by a long shot, but a nice little cup run is a positive development in any context, particularly beating Man City along the way. Put it the other way, if we had been knocked out by Swindon surely that would have been regarded as a negative? I know I would have thought it was. Of course getting knocked out of the cup is a negative. When can it ever be a positive? A good cup run is always nice. The point is, and I will say it again for those that have difficulty grasping it, a good cup run is not a measure of progress. I am sorry to keep mentioning Bradford City but it seems that some people just don't get it. They are a League 2 side who have slipped down the divisions from the Premier League in not too many seasons. They can hardly be progressing can they! As a former manager of some 13 years (admittedly at an amateur level but the principles are just the same) I would never, repeat never, have viewed getting to the semi final of a cup as progress if my team were languishing just above the relegation zone with half the season played especially as it is the third season in a row in which the team finds itself in this sort of position. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 winning any match is a bonus whether it be league or cup, whats it matter, isnt that the name of the game? so why argue whether a cup is of any value or not, itll be nice to win a cup after so long of not winning anything, but what if we do a 'small heath' by winning the cup but going down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 winning any match is a bonus whether it be league or cup, whats it matter, isnt that the name of the game? so why argue whether a cup is of any value or not, itll be nice to win a cup after so long of not winning anything, but what if we do a 'small heath' by winning the cup but going down? Well to some that will be seen as progress because we won the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 when was this? Meant 4 my mistake, still a hammering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Tactically he was brilliant against Liverpool. Chelsea had a good day and we had a bad one. Chelsea's team cost around two hundred million pounds. Who was Lambert supposed to bring on? Personally I think leaving players you want replaced on the pitch during a thumping eight days before the transfer window is quite a brilliant tactic. the Liverpool game would have been very different had they taken their chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I think PL is fortunate that the last man in the post was Alex Mcleish because a loss like Sunday/a season like this so far would never have been considered acceptable. I think PL is very unfortunate that the last man in the post was McLeish - if he had taken over MON's squad for example I imagine he might have had something better to work with rather than the shit he inheirited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 "Inevitably there will be some harsh lessons along the way. Villa conceded four goals to Southampton and five to Manchester City, as well as losing after leading Manchester United 2-0. The current run, which has also brought them a Capital One Cup semi-final against Bradford City, suggests that they are quick learners." Steve Tongue writing in the \independent before the game yesterday. He's right too. Yesterday was a mismatch. I would predict that if we play them again in February at Wembley it will much, much less of a mismatch. Our players have already shown a great capacity for learning from major setbacks. We should be proud of them, I am i am as proud as punch of my team and manager once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Southampton putting 6 past us? City putting 5? 1/6 Of our league games have been huge losses, so in my eyes not such a freak result Southampton was 4-1 not 6. City scored 5 only with the refs help. Chelsea was a disgrace but was a freak result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartin82 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Baby, Bathwater. Judge the season as a whole. Yesterday was a disgrace. The season won't be. People will forget this season (unless we win the Carling Cup), but that result will never be forgotten. I can guarantee in 15 years time most of us will still refer to it from time to time. You can gloss it up as much as you want, but at the end of the day this result is an embarrassment and a disgrace to the name Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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