HeyAnty Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 On this exact date last season we had scored 11 goals, conceded 22 goals and gained 13 points. This year we've scored 13 goals, conceded only 14 goals and have 15 points. So we're 2 points up and our goal difference is up by +10 from this point last season. We've scored more goals, conceded FAR less and we have gained more points. We've improved and whether our football has been pleasing to the eye or not is subjective, in terms of facts our defence and attack are both actually better than they were before. An average young prem team will concede less goals playing hoof ball (which we have been doing this season) than an average young prem team who tried to play football ( which we did last season). Probably score 1 or 2 more at that. All IMO. I just hope our plan is to get safe this season as quick as possible by whatever means then give the team more license to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 We played better football towards the end of last season and got better results though. It's not like the style of football is the reason why we're doing better. We've looked like an ok team (at some points quite a good team) since March whereas before that we looked like a relegation team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Surprisingly we didn't manage to do that last season on the odd occasion that we were 3 or more goals ahead. Cost me money that it did, not that I was complaining. Of course, I made that back and then some when we kept on dropping two goal leads. What was it, 3 times we did that last season? Technically four if you include Swindon I suppose. Our inability to hold on to leads last season was well documentated though. Didn't we give away more points from winning positions then any other team? The improvement in this aspect this season has been impressive and Lambert and the coaching team deserve credit for it. In fact, Whoscored.com list 'protecting the lead' as one of our strengths now which is quite remarkable! Now...if we can just take the lead more often, that would be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) I reckon the best time to look at things will be at the start of January. Our December fixtures are: Southampton (A) Fulham (A) Man Utd (H) Stoke (A) Crystal Palace (H) Swansea (H) Last seasons were: QPR (A) Stoke (H) Liverpool (A) Chelsea (A) Tottenham (H) Wigan (H) We gained 8 points from the December fixtures last season, scoring 8 goals and conceding 18 goals. If it's common sense that 'playing hoof ball' with a young team will mean we score more, concede less and also gain more points then keep it quiet as the entire league will begin to play route one. I think we should continue our improvement over last season by the new year and we should hopefully all agree then that Lambert is improving us. Edited November 27, 2013 by samjp26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I reckon the best time to look at things will be at the start of January. Our December fixtures are: Southampton (A) Fulham (A) Man Utd (H) Stoke (A) Crystal Palace (H) Swansea (H) Last seasons were: QPR (A) Stoke (H) Liverpool (A) Chelsea (A) Tottenham (H) Wigan (H) We gained 8 points from the December fixtures last season, scoring 8 goals and conceding 18 goals. If it's common sense that 'playing hoof ball' with a young team will mean we score more, concede less and also gain more points then keep it quiet as the entire league will begin to play route one. I think we should continue our improvement over last season by the new year and we should hopefully all agree then that Lambert is improving us. Busy period! Lets hope we can get more than 8 pts from those set of fixtures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 im sure last year christmas period has been erased from history it never happened just like signing Salifou and losing to Doncaster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm nearly 100% certain that we won't be letting in 18 goals this time around so don't worry mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 im sure last year christmas period has been erased from history it never happened just like signing Salifou and losing to Doncaster Don't you talk shit about Salifou. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) A very good post from Terrytini and one that I largely agree with...He also eloquently and aptly separates performance from Results, probably performance is more subjective. I have always supported Paul Lambert, but then I did support Martin O'Neill ( massively)in his formative time with us. Things are slow, but I do believe we are improving with results a bit more of a mixed feeling with performances. I clearly understand the argument and pressures that exist surrounding Results and firmly believe like most that they are paramount....However, I also believe if you ignore the criteria associated with performance you will do so at your peril. first touch, good passing, not getting caught in possession, intelligent movement, working off the ball....all these things and more are not add ons, they are not wants as opposed to needs....They are bloody critical if you have plans to challenge for anything. The danger with pursuing the first phase of securing results is that you never get to deal with phase 2 performances and sleep walk in to just accepting it as job done. If there are ambitions to succeed by winning cups or sustaining those new found results that everyone is enjoying ,there is a danger of slipping back. On Monday night, like quite a few matches this year, the Results have improved but some of the performances have not and some players have clearly not improved one iota. There is a long way to go. Edited November 27, 2013 by TRO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 As has already been excellently laid out by certain other members - we have improved massively results wise, it's not even up for debate. Yes the football isn't great but you can't have everything straight away. You'd tightening up the defence and generally looking tougher to beat combined with improved results would placate some people for a little while but clearly not. Yet last season you were at pains to excuse our poor start by premature judgement and now at the same stage this season you've already made a definitive judgement. I guess some are placated whenever it suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 As has already been excellently laid out by certain other members - we have improved massively results wise, it's not even up for debate. Yes the football isn't great but you can't have everything straight away. You'd tightening up the defence and generally looking tougher to beat combined with improved results would placate some people for a little while but clearly not. Yet last season you were at pains to excuse our poor start by premature judgement and now at the same stage this season you've already made a definitive judgement. I guess some are placated whenever it suits. What is with all the personal vendettas/arguments on here lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 It's never personal just business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 It's never personal just business. *In Liam Neeson voice* It was all personal to me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 We played better football towards the end of last season and got better results though. It's not like the style of football is the reason why we're doing better. We've looked like an ok team (at some points quite a good team) since March whereas before that we looked like a relegation team. I think it is the style of football is the reason why we are doing better. Its not the performances because we havent been good from the start of the season. This being backed up by possession stats and direct football stats(passes from Guzan to Bentekke was 50% more than between any other pair in our team on Monday night) Hey i was Lambert no 1 supporter and still am but i just cant understand what we are trying to achieve this season tactics wise, were i did and was excited by them last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted November 27, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2013 Last seasons were: QPR (A) Stoke (H) Liverpool (A) Chelsea (A) Tottenham (H) Wigan (H) We gained 8 points from the December fixtures last season, scoring 8 goals and conceding 18 goals. Trying to figure out the math here. We lost the last 3, so that means we gained 8 points from 3 games. Must have had one of those rare 2-point games agains QPR or Stoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Last seasons were: QPR (A) Stoke (H) Liverpool (A) Chelsea (A) Tottenham (H) Wigan (H) We gained 8 points from the December fixtures last season, scoring 8 goals and conceding 18 goals. Trying to figure out the math here. We lost the last 3, so that means we gained 8 points from 3 games. Must have had one of those rare 2-point games agains QPR or Stoke Apologies, I missed out Norwich on that list, which we won. 2 wins 2 draws and 3 losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 You get three points for beating a team in the cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 it was Lambert's choice was it not to replace experienced Premiership players with inexperienced lower league and foreign players not used to the rigours of the Premiership immediately rather than on a gradual basis. No, I imagine it was the basis on which he took over the club to clear the decks. Also, I believe that retaining old guard would have hindered rather than helped. Lambert took over a shambles and has turned us around in double quick time and on a shoestring - His last 38 games (last 26 last and first 12 of this) would have had us finishing 9th in last seasons table - We are 6 points better off than at the same time last season, despite the toughtest of all possible starts - We are 8 points better off on a like for like basis You only have to take a look at Norwich who have declined since he left them, despite a summer spending spree, to see the calibre of manager we have 10th-12th this season, easily top 10 the following season (better if he gets some money to spend) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) As has already been excellently laid out by certain other members - we have improved massively results wise, it's not even up for debate. Yes the football isn't great but you can't have everything straight away. You'd tightening up the defence and generally looking tougher to beat combined with improved results would placate some people for a little while but clearly not. Yet last season you were at pains to excuse our poor start by premature judgement and now at the same stage this season you've already made a definitive judgement. I guess some are placated whenever it suits. Yeah well I "excused" it to an extent because he'd just come into the job and had a huge task on his hands. Besides, I heavily criticised him for a while after the Bradford debacle (perhaps too heavily in fact). Edited November 27, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 it was Lambert's choice was it not to replace experienced Premiership players with inexperienced lower league and foreign players not used to the rigours of the Premiership immediately rather than on a gradual basis. No, I imagine it was the basis on which he took over the club to clear the decks. Also, I believe that retaining old guard would have hindered rather than helped. Lambert took over a shambles and has turned us around in double quick time and on a shoestring - His last 38 games (last 26 last and first 12 of this) would have had us finishing 9th in last seasons table - We are 6 points better off than at the same time last season, despite the toughtest of all possible starts - We are 8 points better off on a like for like basis You only have to take a look at Norwich who have declined since he left them, despite a summer spending spree, to see the calibre of manager we have 10th-12th this season, easily top 10 the following season (better if he gets some money to spend) You could be right concerning his remit but I believe Lambert stated after his first transfer window with us that the chairman made money available to buy more established players but he decided to go down a different route. As for your other points I have already stated my own opinion on those in a debate with another poster although I would say that any judgement made on Lambert's tenure with us shouldn't exclude the difficulties last season just to suit your debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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