StefanAVFC Posted August 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2013 O'Leary did a superb job in his first season. It was only some poor refereeing decisions in the final game that stopped us qualifying for Europe, and we weren't far off the Champions League placings. I should add at this point, that he was a pig-faced numpty and is my least favourite Villa manager ever. Leave him alone, he had a small mind and was a good lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 O'Leary did a superb job in his first season. It was only some poor refereeing decisions in the final game that stopped us qualifying for Europe, and we weren't far off the Champions League placings. I should add at this point, that he was a pig-faced numpty and is my least favourite Villa manager ever. He may have been a pig-faced numpty, but he wasn't worse than McLeish. I didn't say he was, I said he was my least favourite manager. McLeish was just a poor sap who should never have been given the job. O'Leary actually seemed to hate the club and its fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskitt Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think people have forgotten how much of a mess this club was in before Lambert got here. We were rightly labelled as one of the most boring teams in the division and on a one way street to the championship, had a squad of vastly overpaid, under performing players who appeared to not give a shit and the whole vibe about the club was atrocious. He may not have done everything right so far but we now have a young and dynamic team that has been out together under clear financial restraints ( and for less money than some teams spend on a single player ) and there is an excitement about us again from the fans and the media as well. To have achieved that in 12 months is pretty good going and I genuinely wouldn't want anyone else in charge for where we are as a club right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 what I like now is the fact there are or have been Spanish, Italian and UK managers in England but I don't think we have had a German. Now I know Lambert isn't German, but that's where he learned his trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Lambert has combined his previous achievements while doing a good job here. O'Leary did a good job at Leeds and a shocking job here. The poster above wasn't purely saying that Lambert is a great manager based on his previous achievements but as a combination of the 2. And to add to that, only one poster has said that he is the best manager we've had for 30 years, so your reply was inaccurately aimed at the wrong person. Just seemed a completely pointless post tbh. If you say so Cudos to Lambert for his work at Norwich, but leading us to a 15th place in the league and embarrasing exits in both cups doesn't make him a great coach for us, even thou we've been dire for parts of the last 30 years. Or you could look at last season with a bit of context and say that Lambert managed to get rid of the deadwood, while blooding potentially brilliant youngsters, making shrewd signings and yet managed to stay up and we're looking the healthiest, both financially and squad-wise going into a new season, that we've looked for years. Or you could think that simplistically negative and think '15th place = bad season' Your choice really. No no i agree with most of that, and im quite happy with him. But i don't think that makes him a great coach for yet, and certainly not the best coach we had in the last 30 years. That's up there with the trolling by a certain poster in the Bannan thread. Ferguson didn't become a legend at Manure after 1 season, and Lambert still has a long way to go to become one here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 19, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2013 I 100% agree, I don't think he's close yet. Still has a lot to learn but he's building some exciting that actually seems to have an end product, rather than that 5 year plan bollocks under MON. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I 100% agree, I don't think he's close yet. Still has a lot to learn but he's building some exciting that actually seems to have an end product, rather than that 5 year plan bollocks under MON. Any 5 year plan that had Emile Heskey as part of it after year 3 was doomed to failure. Buying Aiden McGeady for £12m....dear lord. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I'm just scared that after a few back to back loses this season (which will happen) people will start to jump on his back again. Why are Villa fans so impatient? It's going to take years to get back to 3 top 6 finishes again. No doubt about it, we will have a few back to back defeats this season we could easily have them in the next two games! I don't though believe that should that happen that "people will start to jump on his back again", I should add this reply isn't purely directed to you but your post neatly encapsulates a commonly held and expressed view, so I'm replying more in general than purely to your post. If we lose a few games no doubt there will be some who get on his back or who are critical but I'd argue that sometimes that is justified. As is evident from my long post a couple of pages back I'm very much behind Lambert, I think all things considered he is doing a very good job. That won't though mean that I agree with everything he does, for instance I think he got it badly wrong with the 5-3-2 around Christmas last season and I was critical of him for it at the time. That I was critical though doesn't detract from the fact I think he is a very good manager and doing a very good job. If he goes and get's things wrong again I will be critical of him if I think he has got things wrong but it won't change my fundamental position which is one of support for him. That isn't fickle as some like to claim, it isn't unreasonable and it isn't contradictory. It is just basic common sense to me, it is like anything, politics, life, love, music whatever. You can like a band without liking every song they release, or you can support a political party without thinking they are right on everything (yes that is possible you OT politics thread lurkers). I don't though see this as jumping on Lambert's back, it is what being a supporter is about and what this site exists for, it is for fans to talk about what is going right and/or wrong with their fellow fans to lengths that the people you work with or go to school with or whatever wouldn't be willing to listen to. There are some posters on here and some Villa fans who are less convinced by Lambert, that is their right, they are entitled to their views and it is understandable that when we get a result like Saturday they are a little quieter than others. People are quick to assume they are keeping their head down waiting for things to go wrong so they can say I told you so but perhaps they are just reflecting and thinking perhaps they were wrong. Who knows. But what is entirely normal for any football forum is for the tone and content of the discussion and those active in it to reflect what is happening on the park. Despite what people say, football fans are no different from club to club, except perhaps when it comes to a propensity for violence. Which brings me to the misguided notion that Villa fans are impatient which as far as I'm concerned is simply incorrect. Lambert enjoyed a huge amount of support last season, something he has commented on several times despite some really really low points. Not once did the crowd turn on him, not once did they turn on the team this despite the two previous seasons being largely horrific. Some very fair points there but speaking as someone who has been very vocal in his condemnation of Lambert last season i have come forward just as much as last season in congratulating both the team's and Lambert's performance against Arsenal. I have also noted other posters who, lets say, might also post on the negative side concerning Lambert actually coming forward and stating their joy concerning Saturday's performance so it really isn't factual at all to say that certain posters may be quiet due to thinking that their initial criticism of Lambert has been wrong or indeed just waiting for something to go wrong. What we have seen however is an over reaction in some cases and others who have posted with more realism being defined as negative. At the moment there should in fact be a middle earth if you like. A position where we all recognise that there actually might be something quite special happening at our club but tinted with the recognition of previous false dawns and the realisation that it is much too premature yet to presume greatness in a manager who while showing a lot of potential in learning by his mistakes is still nevertheless a very long way off actually earning that accolade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 O'Leary did a superb job in his first season. It was only some poor refereeing decisions in the final game that stopped us qualifying for Europe, and we weren't far off the Champions League placings. I should add at this point, that he was a pig-faced numpty and is my least favourite Villa manager ever. DOL was dead jammy at Leeds because he simply inherited a great foundation that was put there by George Graham. He was an appalling Villa manager who was totally & completely out of touch with the feel & heart beat of the Club & it is no coincidence that his managerial career crashed & burned when his inadequacies were laid bear for all to see during his ignominious Villa park tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I'm just scared that after a few back to back loses this season (which will happen) people will start to jump on his back again. Why are Villa fans so impatient? It's going to take years to get back to 3 top 6 finishes again. No doubt about it, we will have a few back to back defeats this season we could easily have them in the next two games! I don't though believe that should that happen that "people will start to jump on his back again", I should add this reply isn't purely directed to you but your post neatly encapsulates a commonly held and expressed view, so I'm replying more in general than purely to your post. If we lose a few games no doubt there will be some who get on his back or who are critical but I'd argue that sometimes that is justified. As is evident from my long post a couple of pages back I'm very much behind Lambert, I think all things considered he is doing a very good job. That won't though mean that I agree with everything he does, for instance I think he got it badly wrong with the 5-3-2 around Christmas last season and I was critical of him for it at the time. That I was critical though doesn't detract from the fact I think he is a very good manager and doing a very good job. If he goes and get's things wrong again I will be critical of him if I think he has got things wrong but it won't change my fundamental position which is one of support for him. That isn't fickle as some like to claim, it isn't unreasonable and it isn't contradictory. It is just basic common sense to me, it is like anything, politics, life, love, music whatever. You can like a band without liking every song they release, or you can support a political party without thinking they are right on everything (yes that is possible you OT politics thread lurkers). I don't though see this as jumping on Lambert's back, it is what being a supporter is about and what this site exists for, it is for fans to talk about what is going right and/or wrong with their fellow fans to lengths that the people you work with or go to school with or whatever wouldn't be willing to listen to. There are some posters on here and some Villa fans who are less convinced by Lambert, that is their right, they are entitled to their views and it is understandable that when we get a result like Saturday they are a little quieter than others. People are quick to assume they are keeping their head down waiting for things to go wrong so they can say I told you so but perhaps they are just reflecting and thinking perhaps they were wrong. Who knows. But what is entirely normal for any football forum is for the tone and content of the discussion and those active in it to reflect what is happening on the park. Despite what people say, football fans are no different from club to club, except perhaps when it comes to a propensity for violence. Which brings me to the misguided notion that Villa fans are impatient which as far as I'm concerned is simply incorrect. Lambert enjoyed a huge amount of support last season, something he has commented on several times despite some really really low points. Not once did the crowd turn on him, not once did they turn on the team this despite the two previous seasons being largely horrific. Some very fair points there but speaking as someone who has been very vocal in his condemnation of Lambert last season i have come forward just as much as last season in congratulating both the team's and Lambert's performance against Arsenal. I have also noted other posters who, lets say, might also post on the negative side concerning Lambert actually coming forward and stating their joy concerning Saturday's performance so it really isn't factual at all to say that certain posters may be quiet due to thinking that their initial criticism of Lambert has been wrong or indeed just waiting for something to go wrong. What we have seen however is an over reaction in some cases and others who have posted with more realism being defined as negative. At the moment there should in fact be a middle earth if you like. A position where we all recognise that there actually might be something quite special happening at our club but tinted with the recognition of previous false dawns and the realisation that it is much too premature yet to presume greatness in a manager who while showing a lot of potential in learning by his mistakes is still nevertheless a very long way off actually earning that accolade. Lambert says himself in tonights Birmingham Evening Mail....there's a long way to go....so he is quite aware of what's still to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 There is indeed a long way to go, but for once we can all kind of see the destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 DOL was dead jammy at Leeds because he simply inherited a great foundation that was put there by George Graham. And I believe the youth set up which was probably the work of Howard Wilkinson and Paul Hart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 20, 2013 Moderator Share Posted August 20, 2013 DOL was dead jammy at Leeds because he simply inherited a great foundation that was put there by George Graham. And I believe the youth set up which was probably the work of Howard Wilkinson and Paul Hart... And Brian Kidd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) considering I joined up to VT in January time last season, when all our hearts were in the middle of being ripped out by Chelsea, Spurs, Wigan, Bradford and finally Millwall, it's nice to see that in 8 months in this thread we've gone from real despair and questioning what's going on to discussing whether or not Lambert's the best thing since filofaxes and mobile phones Sort of says it all really Edited August 20, 2013 by VILLAMARV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I feel bad for thinking this but a part of me feels that in a way McLeish's season went a lot better than we thought at the time. It went bad enough results wise for McLeish to warrant a sacking but not so bad that we were relegated. Just imagine if he'd been a "success" here - we'd be steady mid-table every season but we'd have to put up with some dreadful defensive football. Under a "successful" McLeish there'd be no chance of relegation but also no chance of success, and certainly entertainment would've been rare. No spankings like the one we had last Christmas but at the same time no games like the 6-1 against Sunderland and no exciting football. He also didn't have much of a chance to firmly make his mark on the club. I firmly believe that McLeish's horrible defensive hoofball and our negative reaction to it contributed to Randy getting Lambert, who is pretty much the polar opposite to McLeish not just in his approach to games but also his general philosphy - young exciting players as opposed to boring mediocre PL cloggers. The McLeish experience probably made the fanbase as a whole more understanding of the changes that need to be made at the club as well, even if there would be negative short-term consequences. I'm not saying Lambert is the greatest manager we've had in 30 years or whatever but these are definitely exciting times for the club and he has the potential to do great things with us. At the time I didn't want McLeish to fail but given what has happened since I'm glad that he did fail. Edited August 20, 2013 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I feel bad for thinking this but a part of me feels that in a way McLeish's season went a lot better than we thought at the time. It went bad enough results wise for McLeish to warrant a sacking but not so bad that we were relegated. Just imagine if he'd been a "success" here - we'd be steady mid-table every season but we'd have to put up with some dreadful defensive football. Under a "successful" McLeish there'd be no chance of relegation but also no chance of success, and certainly entertainment would've been rare. No spankings like the one we had last Christmas but at the same time no games like the 6-1 against Sunderland and no exciting football. He also didn't have much of a chance to firmly make his mark on the club. I firmly believe that McLeish's horrible defensive hoofball and our negative reaction to it contributed to Randy getting Lambert, who is pretty much the polar opposite to McLeish not just in his approach to games but also his general philosphy - young exciting players as opposed to boring mediocre PL cloggers. The McLeish experience probably made the fanbase as a whole more understanding of the changes that need to be made at the club as well, even if there would be negative short-term consequences. I'm not saying Lambert is the greatest manager we've had in 30 years or whatever but these are definitely exciting times for the club and he has the potential to do great things with us. At the time I didn't want McLeish to fail but given what has happened since I'm glad that he did fail. That's a great post Mantis. The reality under McLeish is that he was always going to be doomed to failure right from the start because possibly as many as 99% of the fans were never ever going to give him a chance. Not just because he came from sha, but mainly because, quite rightly, they recognised his previous managerial track record strongly suggested that he would be out of his depth at Villa Park & so it proved. Some even speculate that the Board deliberately appointed him because they knew that they could start to seriously begin implementing a cost cutting programme in the full knowledge that Big 'Eck would be the ultimate fall guy if we crashed & burned. That as they say though is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 When asked about our players being 'bullies' on Saturday: "Bullying? Have you seen my midfield? They're 5ft 4?" Haha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I feel bad for thinking this but a part of me feels that in a way McLeish's season went a lot better than we thought at the time. It went bad enough results wise for McLeish to warrant a sacking but not so bad that we were relegated. Just imagine if he'd been a "success" here - we'd be steady mid-table every season but we'd have to put up with some dreadful defensive football. Under a "successful" McLeish there'd be no chance of relegation but also no chance of success, and certainly entertainment would've been rare. No spankings like the one we had last Christmas but at the same time no games like the 6-1 against Sunderland and no exciting football. He also didn't have much of a chance to firmly make his mark on the club. I firmly believe that McLeish's horrible defensive hoofball and our negative reaction to it contributed to Randy getting Lambert, who is pretty much the polar opposite to McLeish not just in his approach to games but also his general philosphy - young exciting players as opposed to boring mediocre PL cloggers. The McLeish experience probably made the fanbase as a whole more understanding of the changes that need to be made at the club as well, even if there would be negative short-term consequences. I'm not saying Lambert is the greatest manager we've had in 30 years or whatever but these are definitely exciting times for the club and he has the potential to do great things with us. At the time I didn't want McLeish to fail but given what has happened since I'm glad that he did fail. That's a great post Mantis. The reality under McLeish is that he was always going to be doomed to failure right from the start because possibly as many as 99% of the fans were never ever going to give him a chance. Not just because he came from sha, but mainly because, quite rightly, they recognised his previous managerial track record strongly suggested that he would be out of his depth at Villa Park & so it proved. Some even speculate that the Board deliberately appointed him because they knew that they could start to seriously begin implementing a cost cutting programme in the full knowledge that Big 'Eck would be the ultimate fall guy if we crashed & burned. That as they say though is another story. Never ever even if he'd done a better job? 99%? Really? He could have won people over - for a lot of people this is a results business and if he'd achieved better results then more than 1% of supporters would have eased off. He didn't, they didn't. Thank god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 When asked about our players being 'bullies' on Saturday: "Bullying? Have you seen my midfield? They're 5ft 4?" Haha Con will be delighted to hear Bannan's starting at Chelsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Yes ChrisVillain - Thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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