Stevo985 Posted March 26, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted March 26, 2013 And fwiw I'm not aware of Senna ever doing anything as low as this. There's a difference between doing what it takes to win, and deliberately using team orders against your own teammate. It wasn't a case of just disobeying team orders, or taking out his teammate in the course of a fair fight. It was deliberately using the fact that webber had eased off on the assumption that he wouldn't be challenged against him. Whichever way you look at it, that's low. Admir ehim for doing what it takes if you like, that's fine. But as I said, it doesn't change my opinion that the guy is a cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 thing is if Vettel wins title by just a couple of points. Im sure people will be praising him for his crucial move on Webber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 3, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted April 3, 2013 I can't and won't defend what Vettel did because I believe it to be indefensible. In the past, people have questioned his attitude and his personality and I have always defended him because I believed and still believe that they were using a subjective dislike of the guy in order to pick at perceived 'incidents' that weren't there.This Malaysia incident is the FIRST time I've objectively seen him do something that is wrong in F1. He should not have done what he did and he certainly should not have compounded the problem by saying it was unintentional. Unlike Zatman, I think Vettel can only lose WDC points over the season as a result of this. When he needs Webber's help at any point this season, he knows he will not get it. So he'd better enjoy the short-term gain of 7 extra points because they're the last he'll see from Webber. If he wins the WDC now it'll be all his own work.Having said all of that, it IS the first character-related mistake he has made and I'm not going to linger on it. He was very silly but people seem to forget (or just not know) that he is still something like the 3rd youngest driver on the grid and he is entitled to make a mistake and still be learning his trade irrespective of his success to date. He has said sorry many times since the incident and I bet he will have learned from it in one way or another. He's not the monster people have been painting since day one and he showed in Malaysia that he's no angel either.Now, on to China. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Perfect summation BOF. From what I have seen of him he seems like quite a nice bloke - good sense of humour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 3, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2013 I diddn't like him prior to this incident, bu I'll happily admit that's due to my engrained dislike of anyone who starts to dominate the sport. I didn't like Schumacher when he dominated, I didn't like Alonso when it looked like he'd go on to dominate, and I don't like Vettel because he's dominating. Don't know if that's irrational or not. It's not just football. My dislike of Man Utd is more or less entirely down to them being so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 3, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted April 3, 2013 I get you and I do love the underdog too. Hell we're on a Villa forum FFS But there's another side to that discussion (the one of dominance) that does get missed. That is, at some point you have to stand back and admire history being made and genius doing what genius does. Like Barcelona for example in football and Schumacher in F1 (I wasn't particularly a fan fwiw). If you can't admire the sport (whichever one it may be) being performed at its absolute pinnacle then why follow it in the first place. That's not directed at you btw, it's just a musing I've had over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 nearly 10 days ago now but I really think Horner made a balls of his handling of it still. He should have laid down the law to Vettel but treated it over the radio as he was a cheeky chappy unlike the guys at Mercedes. Might be just that I cant stand the guy as he is just too smug, reminds me of an F1 Jeremy Kyle in which I just want to punch him or maybe better if Webber did it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Would be funny if later on in the season, Webber **** Vettel over so that he doesn't win the drivers championship. Say Vettel needs to finish in a certain position and Webber doesn't let him through.. Would love that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Had a great stroke of luck. I'm taking the family to Spain for a holiday in May and as luck would have it I'll be about 80km from the Spanish GP in Barcelona. I floated the idea of going to the OH and she was ok with it (!). So, now to find some tickets. GET IN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 4, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2013 I get you and I do love the underdog too. Hell we're on a Villa forum FFS But there's another side to that discussion (the one of dominance) that does get missed. That is, at some point you have to stand back and admire history being made and genius doing what genius does. Like Barcelona for example in football and Schumacher in F1 (I wasn't particularly a fan fwiw). If you can't admire the sport (whichever one it may be) being performed at its absolute pinnacle then why follow it in the first place. That's not directed at you btw, it's just a musing I've had over the years. I agree. And I do admire the bad guys (or those that are the bad guys imo). It's very much a pantomime relationship. I don't like them because I sort of enjoy not liking them. I'm the first to admit that Vettel is (probably) the best driver on the grid and it's scary just how good he is and how young he is. Same with the football comparison, I admire watching United play (especially 10 years ago) even though I hated them. undeniably a fantastic team. But I bloody hate them for it The admiration is there for Vettel, as it was with Schumacher. but it's reluctant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Certainly doesn't appear like Seb and Mark have kissed and made up.Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel says he would "probably" ignore team orders again if he was instructed not to challenge team-mate Mark Webber.Vettel was asked if he would repeat his actions from the Malaysian Grand Prix.He said: "I'm not sure I can give a proper answer because in the moment it might be different but I would probably do the same."Vettel added his move was "indirectly" a form of payback for what he said was a lack of past support from Webber.So he said he was sorry and shouldn't have done it... now seems to have done a U turn and decided f**k it I'll do what I like.All eyes on this pair at the weekend! Edited April 11, 2013 by Tamuff_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 11, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2013 Yeah as a fan of Vettel I'd like to advise him on learning when to shut up. No good can come from re-visiting that incident. When journalists question him on it he should just say it's in the past and that any quotes they want have already been made. It's another sign of the inexperience of yoof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 It's another sign of the inexperience of yoof. Well, as he's not that young or inexperienced any more Bri, I'd put the alternative view that it's a sign of him being a complete cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 11, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2013 If you were right then it took him a while to bring that side out. It's more likely a reaction to this particular situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 11, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 11, 2013 Susie Wolff: I can remember Lella Lombardi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Reading between the lines a bit here but he has had 3 weeks to consider how he deals with the inevitable questions about the last race. As BOF said, he could have batted it away "its in the past, me, Mark and the team have spoken about it and are now aligned". End of story. He seems to have decided to go a different way with it which suggests to me he has not patched things up with Mark and he may also have had a rift with the team because no doubt stoking this story up again brings them a load more unwanted media attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 11, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) It's another sign of the inexperience of yoof. Well, as he's not that young or inexperienced any more Bri, I'd put the alternative view that it's a sign of him being a complete cock. Probably a mixture. But yeah I think he's potentially a bit of a cock Edit: Am I allowed to say "cock" now? Edited April 11, 2013 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 11, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2013 It's fairly clear Vettel & Webber can't stand each other and they never will while in the same team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I agree BOF but its one thing not getting on with your team mate (v. Common) but another to bring a shit storm of media interrogation to your employers doorstep. Clearly well lodged up his own backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 It's another sign of the inexperience of yoof. Well, as he's not that young or inexperienced any more Bri, I'd put the alternative view that it's a sign of him being a complete cock. Probably a mixture. But yeah I think he's potentially a bit of a cock Edit: Am I allowed to say "cock" now? I hope so! I thought the word filter would deal with it. I don't want another yella! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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