YLN Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) MON lost 2-0 at home to Wigan the season we got to the carling cup final and finished 6th. Lambert lost 3-0, so we'll probably lose the semis and finish 9th. That's alright Edited December 29, 2012 by yillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackAVFC1993 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Lambert out!!!! I feel sorry for fans who actually pay to watch this im sorry but you aint getting my money villa. And if anyone says your fickle and you should get behind the team why.... They get paid thousands a week and should be supportive when they do fck all and pay to watch them NO WAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 In reference to the failed abortion of a discussion going on above, sort it out lads. 'ckin hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 MON lost 2-0 at home to Wigan the season we got to the carling cup final and finished 6th. Lambert lost 3-0, so we'll probably lose the semis and finish 9th. That's alright Can you do a graphical representation of this like peterms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Whether 'you're' was used is neither here nor there, the posts were intended to characterise the type of fan that the posters did not agree with. A generalisation isn't so 'sweeping' when it's being applied only to people who don't share your perspective. Agreed . That still doesn't mean anybody was calling themselves a better fan does it ? There are loads of posters on here who i think are fickle miserable gits but they care about the club and may even go to more games than me and spend more money etc. They may be even better fans than me in that case but it doesn't mean that they are not miserable buggers. Nobody has said that anyone is a "better" fan than anybody else as far as I can see, yet you made a big deal about it being said, which is not the case . You can be the best fan in the world and still be a fickle moaning brummie you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 What's the problem in encouraging fans to be supportive? Nothing. It would appear that most have been (and probably are still are) incredibly supportive if for no other reason than they really hope that things get better. Some of the exhortations, though. to 'have faith' and to 'not make things more difficult for the lads' (which seems like a euphemism for don't criticize and is the same kind of thing we've heard for the last two seasons) are more than just a call to arms. They come across as a criticism of those who don't do these things (i.e. have faith and keep their gobs shut) especially when coupled with the stuff about being behind a keyboard, not attending games and so on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 The poster was not including himself as part of the 'whining brummie' stereotype. He was using it to characterise other fans. How do you not realise it's saying the same thing? Of course he was using it to characterise other fans, and illustrate the kind of behaviour he wishes they would avoid. He was not using it to attack another poster. It seems to me to be entirely within site guidelines (which is the relevance of the "better fan" reference), and also fair comment. If you think it's against site guidelines, just click the "report" button to get a view from a mod. Do you think that praising the fans who did all that singing while being stuffed by Tottenham is implicitly criticising those who didn't join in? Or that disagreeing with other posters about tactics is equivalent to making a claim to being a better fan than them personally, and so putting down their views? The behaviour of some fans is wholly unacceptable (intimidating others, violence). Others do things which greatly impair the enjoyment of others at the match. And some do things which satisfy their own wish to express their frustration, but which may be counterproductive and actually make things worse, if enough people do the same. All these categories are different, but it seems to me it's entirely acceptable to disagree with any or all of them, and to say so. Trying to silence them by saying they're using a "better fan" argument is a misleading suggestion that it contravenes site rules, and also just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Absolute rubbish from start to finish. We made Wigan look like world beaters for the first third of the game. We had a much better period just before half time but only managed to create one chance that we didn't take. Second half was diabolical. Conceding those goals was always going to happen as we have little or no shape. Haven't a clue what Lambert thought he was doing again. One fit centre half so he decides to play three at the back? Wigan play three at the back so why did we not try and exploit wide areas from the start? Really very poor from the manager and he has to take most of the responsibility for this one I'mn afraid. Completely inept tactical performance, then leaves it far too late to make changes. Don't think there was one highlight. Lowton didn't do too badly and Bannan was ok. Benteke was rubbish again, as were Holman and Ireland. Although thinking about it how were we expect to dominate the midfield with Ireland, Bannan and Holman? Ridiculous. The players just aren't good enough, we need about 8 players in January if we are to survive. I'm not talking Championship players, proper experienced PL or other top league heads. I don't think we'll do it though, otherwise what was the point of letting them all go the past two years and admitting we screwed up. Ergo, we are in deep, deep shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beasley14 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'm going to stick my neck out and say 5-3-2 doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Can you all just cut out this "better fan" bollocks please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I'm going to stick my neck out and say 5-3-2 doesn't work It just needs more time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Can you all just cut out this "better fan" bollocks please There was ONE poster who mistakenly assumed other posters were labelling themselves as better fans . You'd do well to actually read and understand the posts before making outlandish comments. Just as the poster in question should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I stated that if we lost against Wigan then I would be calling for the manager to go and that's exactly what I'm doing now. His philosophy of buying lower league players hasn't worked because simply the quality in numbers wasn't here to allow those young players time to consistently flourish in the Premiership. We needed experience quality first to stabilize the team and then the introduction of youth could have been brought through at a later date. Lambert is again the wrong manager at exactly the wrong time and we are paying for that now. I do not believe he will be sacked but his tenure to date has been a disaster because of the above statement and he has also not played to the strengths of our available players from the start of the season which is inexcusable. It may change in January, but we will have to pay through the nose for the quality needed as clubs will hold us to ransom. Also will those players come to us without significant wages and Lambert isn't yet a big enough name to attract quality on his own. Confidence is now shattered and listening to Lambert in his post match interview on the BBC instilled me with no confidence at all that he is the man not only to turn it around but to take us forward in the future. He has to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Nothing. It would appear that most have been (and probably are still are) incredibly supportive if for no other reason than they really hope that things get better. Some of the exhortations, though. to 'have faith' and to 'not make things more difficult for the lads' (which seems like a euphemism for don't criticize and is the same kind of thing we've heard for the last two seasons) are more than just a call to arms. They come across as a criticism of those who don't do these things (i.e. have faith and keep their gobs shut) especially when coupled with the stuff about being behind a keyboard, not attending games and so on. Well, I don't get to many matches at all, so I imagine most people are better at showing their support than me. I have no problem with people criticising from behind a keyboard, as you know. Even when it's just negative. If some posters are asking people not to spend the match shouting insults, booing, and then walking out 30 minutes before the end, then they are entirely right to do that. I imagine we've all sat near someone who does that, and it's pretty unpleasant for all concerned. But I don't link that with saying that people should naively accept everything that happens, at all. It's not a case of "don't criticise", but rather saying "don't express that criticism in a way that's damaging to the team". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Our midfield give the opposition so much time and space it's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laivasse Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Agreed . That still doesn't mean anybody was calling themselves a better fan does it ? There was ONE poster who mistakenly assumed other posters were labelling themselves as better fans . You'd do well to actually read and understand the posts before making outlandish comments. Just as the poster in question should have. There was no mistake made, you just seem to be very forgiving of ad hominem attacks when they suit your perspective. You acknowledge that generalisations were made, but don't seem to mind that they were negative generalisations that undermined fans of a certain perspective. I don't even have a dog in the 'moaning brummie' race since I'm not from Birmingham. Nevertheless it's obvious to me that dismissing someone's, anyone's, viewpoint because they weren't at the game or because they fit some stereotype of fickleness, is questioning their worth as a fan. Plain as day. Of course he was using it to characterise other fans, and illustrate the kind of behaviour he wishes they would avoid. He was not using it to attack another poster. He was using that stereotype to undermine the worth of any opinion from a certain set of fans. It's not me who's trying to silence anyone, it's the idea that your support is only worth something if you're saying a certain kind of thing in a certain kind of way. The site rules shouldn't just exist as a tripwire that fires when someone does a naughty, they should guide the spirit of discussion, and stuff like 'people who say X are just Y-type of fan' clearly goes against that, not that I think it's worth narking on anybody for. Edited December 29, 2012 by Laivasse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackAVFC1993 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Well, I don't get to many matches at all, so I imagine most people are better at showing their support than me. I have no problem with people criticising from behind a keyboard, as you know. Even when it's just negative. If some posters are asking people not to spend the match shouting insults, booing, and then walking out 30 minutes before the end, then they are entirely right to do that. I imagine we've all sat near someone who does that, and it's pretty unpleasant for all concerned. But I don't link that with saying that people should naively accept everything that happens, at all. It's not a case of "don't criticise", but rather saying "don't express that criticism in a way that's damaging to the team". I wouldnt worry about the players thought they are becoming millionaires off the fans money. The vast majority don't give a care for the fans im sorry if you think its different but get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Not seen anything of today's game bar the score, disappointed, but not really worried. I believe we have enough to stay up this season. A young squad, with injuries, will always go through some tough patches (this one is proving exceptionally tough), as well as some good ones. I believe that Lambert and Lerner have the long term in mind and I'm willing to wait and see where it's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Well, I don't get to many matches at all, so I imagine most people are better at showing their support than me. I have no problem with people criticising from behind a keyboard, as you know. Even when it's just negative. If some posters are asking people not to spend the match shouting insults, booing, and then walking out 30 minutes before the end, then they are entirely right to do that. I imagine we've all sat near someone who does that, and it's pretty unpleasant for all concerned. But I don't link that with saying that people should naively accept everything that happens, at all. It's not a case of "don't criticise", but rather saying "don't express that criticism in a way that's damaging to the team". I don't think my opinion on the matter diverges much from your's, Peter. Just on the walking out today - I'm normally flabbergasted that anyone could spend the amount that it costs to attend a game and walk out before the end (though they've paid their money so it's quite rightly up to them if they so wish) but I just got the feeling that the third goal today was the proverbial straw for those that went. I may well be wrong and I hope I am. Edit: Nice to see Newcastle trying to shield us from the spotlight! Edited December 29, 2012 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I wouldnt worry about the players thought they are becoming millionaires off the fans money. The vast majority don't give a care for the fans im sorry if you think its different but get real. Oh, it's not that I feel sorry for the poor dears, or think that they deserve our sympathy for earning all that money for a 4-hour day doing what they would certainly have done happily for far, far less. It's more that if you want to get anything out of people, especially in a situation where confidence is a big factor in performance, than spending the match slagging them off is about the most counterproductive, boneheaded thing that anyone could do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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