maqroll Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Given was always going to start the Cup final. Benching him against Burnley will not help his confidence at all. So for me, it's obvious that Given starts the next two games, unless he totally implodes against Burnley, which won't happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This was always an accident waiting to happen. Never understood how Guzan lost the No. 1 spot. Was wondering this before the first goal went in. Shay Given has been an ordinary keeper for years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpaywasawesome Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm going to guarantee if Given starts the cup final against Arsenal, we're going to have plenty of heart-in-mouth moments where Arsenal break and Given is crawling off his line like the semi-retired man he is, we will likely concede from most of those chances. Will it split the dressing room? Only if Given reacts poorly, which given his professionalism I doubt it. And Guzan can say he deserves it after what MON did to him in the League Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 massive over reaction on here, Just like people saying Guzan would have saved Lukaku penalty nobody knows what would have happened if he played. Not like Guzan hasnt played in drubbings as well as for the final Given deserves to play and be horrible man management to drop him for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yes you cant dropped Given for the final when he has played in every round. Its not like he has been a liability in the previous rounds, in fact without him we wouldn't be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'd drop him for Guzan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yes you cant dropped Given for the final when he has played in every round. Its not like he has been a liability in the previous rounds, in fact without him we wouldn't be there. 2010 final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Well, I've watched the goals back, and I'm not sure why Given is getting stick. Those three goals inside 3 minutes were all as a result of defensive ineptitude, just as they were when Arsenal did the same thing when they scored 3 goals against us in three minutes at the start of the season, albeit with three different players rather than one. The point is, none of the goals came as a mistake from Given, and he actually did well to even half stop some of them. Everything they touched went right for them yesterday, I doubt Long will ever hit a ball that sweetly from distance in the rest of his career. Vlaar and Okore were criminally bad yesterday. Vlaar had one of those games where he was all over the shop, and Okore looked like he'd been sedated, he was that poor. We've seen it time and time again, and having Guzan in the nets yesterday wouldn't have made a scrap of difference. Like we've never been battered with Brad playing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Given put up a pretty weak effort for at least two of those goals, on top of that he looked shaky and clueless from crosses. Not a performance that instilled any confidence. Unless Guzan's own confidence is still completely shot I'd bring him back for Burnley game and then the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 He should've tipped the Mane third over the bar and maybe could've been quicker for thw Vlaar backpass. The others I agree he's not to blame, infact two good saves from the one-on-ones which is where he's probably superior to Guzan now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Well, I've watched the goals back, and I'm not sure why Given is getting stick. Those three goals inside 3 minutes were all as a result of defensive ineptitude, just as they were when Arsenal did the same thing when they scored 3 goals against us in three minutes at the start of the season, albeit with three different players rather than one. The point is, none of the goals came as a mistake from Given, and he actually did well to even half stop some of them. Everything they touched went right for them yesterday, I doubt Long will ever hit a ball that sweetly from distance in the rest of his career. Vlaar and Okore were criminally bad yesterday. Vlaar had one of those games where he was all over the shop, and Okore looked like he'd been sedated, he was that poor. We've seen it time and time again, and having Guzan in the nets yesterday wouldn't have made a scrap of difference. Like we've never been battered with Brad playing. I don't think many people are directly blaming given for any goals. Just that in general he's had a pretty poor couple of games. West ham he was poor but kept a clean sheet for example. Being responsible or not responsible for goals doesn't define a whole performance. Edited May 17, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 So the deciding factor for me is how the rest of the back four look depending on who's in goal. Our back four, in any given combination, always has a tendency to panic and give away cheap goals, especially late ones. But they look just that little bit more calm, more assured, and less panicky in front of Given. Maybe that's due to his experience, maybe he communicates better, I don't know. But they seem to perform better when Given is behind them, and that makes a big difference. So much for that theory, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrim Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 He wasn't directly at fault for the goals but as others have said he was weak for a few of the goals. The first one he was unlucky with a rebound Second one, I thought he was slow off his line and weak. I think Guzan clears the ball and Long there and there is no goal Third, I think Guzan gets a finger to that. Forth, again unlucky that rebound went straight to Southampton player Fifth and sixth I don't think there was much he could do That's 2 of the most important ones that I think Guzan would have saved. Don't forget the punch he tried later in the game that didn't clear the box. It wasn't a goal but shows one of givens weaknesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted May 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 17, 2015 Guzan back in the squad for me please. Given is pushing on 40, and he shows it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Guzan back in the squad for me please. Given is pushing on 40, and he shows it. Maybe he should play against Burnley. I agree about the age but its not just that. Given has been a few years from playing major competive football for a sustained period. Its ok playing the odd cup game but playing regular league football is much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This bloke is on what? £50k a week? He came out for the second goal and made a pathetic attempt to tackle the lad. If he'd have dived in, he would have got a nasty kick in the head but he would have prevented the goal. I want to win the final-We have more chance of doing so with our best keeper starting, which is Guzan. Again, I refer you to his pay packet. he is paid to do a job-There should be no sentiment in picking him just because he's played in earlier rounds. I know he'll play at Wembley-I just hope it doesn't come back to bite us on the backside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 What it comes down to for me is Guzan will fight and play with all his heart if he was in the final. Doesn't matter if he could get injured, Guzan would go for it. He is one of the longest serving members of this club and you can genuinely see he wants to see us succeed. Plus he probably has even more drive since being dropped. That is what we need, not Given's timid nature. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 On present form, I think neither is actually good enough. Therein lies the dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Guzan back in the squad for me please. Given is pushing on 40, and he shows it. I would say he's showing weaknesses that's always been in his game. He's always played behind poor defences. I don't think that's nesseserly a freak of nature. I shit myself at every corner now, it takes me back to the McLeish era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Maybe Given got number 1 spot for the league so that he won't feel too bad when Guzan plays in the cup final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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