Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, TheStagMan said: Thats not the point, the point was that overblown political correctness does exist in people's lives and most wont differentiate if it is the government, the company the work for or the stray cat down the street. Oh definitely. As long as we're in agreement that it's pants-on-head retarded to be voting for a presedential candidate because a company was a bit overzealous in trying not to offend people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's a fairly common conspiracy theory that gets repeated a lot. This idea that on the first day in the job, the president sits down with people behind the scenes running the likes of the NSA and CIA, and gets put in his place. It usually includes some sort of folder of all of the awful things that the president has done that he wouldn't want revealed to the public, but I'm not entirely sure that'd work with the Donald! It'll be interesting to see if his behaviour changes at all over the next couple of months. There is that conspiracy yes. But I'm just on about the fact that there is pre-existing legislation and there are massive lobby groups with financial implications. He has advisors that are more than advisors. Then yes you have the other civil servants who do yield an amount of power. He'll go around shaking a lot of hands while the job of running country is left to others. I just hope the streets don't burn in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Whilst there are extremists on both sides of any fence, saying this about people who voted to leave a political union they do not believe in is very offensive and this level of stereotyping and tarnishing all people who disagree with the current political situation as xenophobes..... Mate I am not saying everybody voted for Brexit or voted for Trump for those reasons and if it came across that way then I apologise. I do think much of it is down to that though. As I said in a previous post many will have voted for other reasons not related to xenophobic views etc but a consequence of both Brexit and now Trump being elected is that those who hold those extremist views will now feel they have been legitimised and given respectability. Edited November 9, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Trump got over 50% of the popular vote (although it was very close to 50/50). This probably won't actually be true, just to be clear. Vote counting still has a long way to go in California, which will almost certainly take Clinton over 50% of the popular vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I wonder how this trial in December is going to go. Or pre-trial court thingy charge against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Oh definitely. As long as we're in agreement that it's pants-on-head retarded to be voting for a presedential candidate because a company was a bit overzealous in trying not to offend people At what point did i say I supported voting for Trump because a company I used to work for was up its own arse about upsetting people who might take offense to Christmas? I was responding to the point about only idiots believing that political correctness exists. back to the topic: People voted for Trump for a number of reasons. Dismissing them all as idiots is a retarded way of responding to the will of the people. The correct response would be to understand WHY it happened and look at the causes and fix them (if their are real, fix them, if they are perceived, fix the perception). Sitting around wringing hands and wailing about what a stupid decision it is and deriding people as idiots and crying about how nasty your country has become on national TV is not going to stop it happening. And it certainly wont stop it happening again. (not aimed at you, just a summary of FB, forums and TV this morning) Anyway, have to go out, so enjoy your debate guys (be nice!), will be back later Edited November 9, 2016 by TheStagMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 57 minutes ago, maqroll said: Clinton is a really pathetic campaigner...she ignored Michigan and Wisconsin thinking they were solidly blue. And ultimately, her message was all about how terrible Trump is, and very little about her own policies. Pretty much like the remain campaign over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted November 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 Political correctness is 'uuugely overstated. It's become a copout to swiftly evade criticism of questionable rhetoric, to the point that what is considered bigoted has been considerably stretched in recent times. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Whilst there are extremists on both sides of any fence, saying this about people who voted to leave a political union they do not believe in is very offensive and this level of stereotyping and tarnishing all people who disagree with the current political situation as xenophobes is one of the reasons that candidates like Trump will prevail - if the establishment ignores the will of the people, or dismisses their views (like you just have) and labels them as "wrong" then the people will eventually chose the alternative option warts and all. Being intellectually, morally and politically superior and smug (or thinking you/they are) is one of the problems here and in the US. To be clear: I absolutely do not support any form of racism or xenophobia. And lumping people who disagree with the status quo in with those that do is a narrow minded attitude that totally misses the point,and makes people feel even more disenfranchised. That is why people like Trump prevail (I am not happy with him being elected, but I am not going to lose my shit over it like people are doing all over facebook this morning) Like Brexit here, I believe that the majority of people who voted for Trump are people who want change, normal people who are dissatisfied with what the current leaders are doing. The nut jobs and wierdos that attach themselves to his side are unfortunaately the ones that get the publicity. Trump got over 50% of the popular vote (although it was very close to 50/50). Say what you like, but there is no way that 50% of Americans are Xenophobic racists. What Trump needs to do is make sure that the real racists and xenophobes do get kept under their rocks whilst making sure that the balance of political correctness does not impede rational debate about the issues the country is facing. I have travelled to the US quite a lot, and met a lot of people. I have also worked regularly with a team of Americans who I have gotten to know quite well, most of them are well rounded, decent human beings, well travelled, receptive and open. Many of them told me they would be voting Trump. A good post with some good points made. However, I don't see how the highlighted part can be realistic without Trump hiding himself under a huge rock. A lot of what he has said has been racist and sexist and a lot of what he stands for seems to be also This is where the similarities to Brexit/Farage are. It legitimises those "I'm not racist but" opinions held by more people than you would imagine. For me both this election and the EU referendum were won by targetting these tendencies in people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: At what point did i say I supported voting for Trump because a company I used to work for was up its own arse about upsetting people who might take offense to Christmas? I was responding to the point about only idiots believing that political correctness exists. I once applied for a job with an American company, I was told at the interview that if successful, I would have to remove my beard. Was that political correctness? Or does the term only refer to calling out racism and other forms of hate? Does the incident tell us anything about wider society, or is it simply a quirk of the management of one firm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 the symbolism of his win will make itself visible in ugly displays in the coming days and weeks of that I'm certain. I suppose a large part of the problem and blame can be placed at the Democratic machine that insisted upon Hillary rather than Bernie. Sanders would have appealled to the pissed off, whilst also not being a failure of a human being. Clinton supporters in the primaries would have supported Bernie in the final in higher numbers than Bernie's supporters did for HRC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, BOF said: What this DOES do is reflect incredibly poorly on the American population. I disagree - It's an anti establishment vote. People at this stage would rather roll the dice than stick with the same people they blame for the shitty life they have. Problem is that now they have rolled the dice, they may look back on these times as halcyon as the inevitable knock on effects of globalisation destroys their working class communities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Quite probably. Anecdotal of course, but there are huge numbers of Trump voters on Reddit that say they supported Sanders but went for Trump out of anger at the Democrats **** over Sanders and making sure Clinton won the primary. It's shocking that both candidates had voter bases that mostly didn't like them but just thought they were less bad than the alternative. Get a fresh face in with no baggage to oppose Trump and it should be a landslide in 2020. Edited November 9, 2016 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) The narcissistic tendencies of Europe are on full display this morning. Martin Schulz the President of the EU Parliament has been out moaning about how this is a difficult moment for US - EU relations. Senior German ministers are even more overtly hostile saying they are very shocked and this isn't the result that they or the German people wanted. For better or worse Trump has been elected, insulting him (I think the French Foreign Minister has had a pop today) is a direct slight against the American people by nations whose physical security is based on US indulgence. They couldn't get any further up their own arses - but it's all beneficial to the UK when they behave like this. Edited November 9, 2016 by Awol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 What's the radius on a nuke these days? We're safe if Trump goes for Germany right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: What's the radius on a nuke these days? We're safe if Trump goes for Germany right? Yeah that's fine - & UK will be the biggest economy in Europe again. Shame about the Christmas market but we can't have everything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ah the irony of 'anti fascist' protestors smashing windows and burning out cars to oppose people electing someone they don't like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Awol, some people think that fewer people will die in the Middle East under a Trump presidency than would have died under Clinton, because he will be less interventionist despite all the mouth. What's your take on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I see Farage has been invited to meet Trump, wonder if Trump is going to offer Farage a high level job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's really almost impossible to say what he will or will not do at this point. Everything is basically a theory, with the ones that align with what he's already said possibly holding slightly more weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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