Davkaus Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 43 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: from the post , I'm assuming you deem his comment to be racist in tone ? (Go in the Tory thread and you'll find countless posts about various tory MP's being loathsome creatures ) but the article doesn't give any suggestion It is , Obama I believe in this instance is being deemed loathsome for his efforts to blackmail the UK into voting remain ... to an extent I agree , though I don't tend to use the word Loathsome unless I'm singing the Oliver and Hardy hit song I'd like to think that in the 21st century for the most part we can just look past race and gender and just treat people as people, but I find it hard to look at Farage's comments and not see racial undertones there, and I think it stems from the fact that it's the kind of language that was used for decades by the far right to dehumanise black people and other ethnic minorities. Farage knows this. Would he label a white president that put the UK at the back of the line for trade deals "that creature"? I'd hope so, but there's enough of a stink around Farage's views that I'm not so sure. It's not even necessarily about trusting the intentions of Farage, I mean, I play with my friend's little kids, I let them climb all over me and carry them around and call them little monkeys...If I said that about little black kids I'd expect it to be reacted to pretty badly, it just is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: My personal favourite in all the wailing is Amy Schumer ( I'll be honest I know the name but not actually who she is ) She managed to twit "People who voted for him you are weak. You are not just misinformed. You didn't even attempt information," and then posted a faked quote of Trumps that she acknowledges "Yes this quote is fake but it doesn't matter" celebs ... got to love them I've tried to find those tweets and failed. Linky-poo per chance maybe kthx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 36 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: My friend wrote this. I think it's really good and has me think about things more critically. Quote You know why Trump won right? He had a good narrative. His policies, illogical as they were, are easy to understand. Everyone knows them. He wants to build a wall. He wants to shut Muslims out. He wants to make America isolationist and curtail free trade. You may not like them, I don't, but you know them. They're there and theres no politicisation or fluffing up about it. He doesn't care if YOU'RE offended, god forbid. And you know what his message is. Can someone tell me ONE Hilary policy in a single sentence please? One single sentence. I'm going to put something shocking out there: Not all Trump supporters are racist. A great deal probably far from it. If you were living in the rust belt of America (Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. All areas that unexpectedly voted for Trump) and you lost your job in the former industrial heartlands due to big corporate bosses offshoring your job to a region halfway across the world because its cheaper and it resulted in you working overtime in two minimum wage jobs, you had two or three kids you could barely afford to feed and had a shitty life in general compared to your parents, you too would maybe vote for Trump. I'd probably consider it. Why would you vote for Hilary? What was she actually offering you? And this is where the left have failed. The Democrats did not offer anything new to the working class, who are supposed to be their base. Does anyone even know what they offered them? The working class were abandoned in favour of playing identity politics. Lets be honest, a white working class man struggling to make a living for himself is not "privileged". Yet when he is told that he is by some on the left it is really shocking that the left believed that vote was in the bag. This isn't just in America, it's happening everywhere. This is why the far-right is having a renaissance. It's not because working class people are racist, most probably aren't. It's because their class issues are ignored by the left, their natural home, in favour of identity. Patronising and shouting at the white working class and telling them they voted Trump, or Brexit, because they are all a bunch of racists does not help, it only makes them gravitate towards a poisonous and disgusting ideology which is taking hold. I'm going to leave it there and I'm going to try to stop talking about politics for a while, mostly because it's probably **** annoying to people. All I will say is there are IMPORTANT elections coming up next year in Europe. Let's see what happens How do the left get that demographic back? Great piece. One thing I'll note is that the white working class guy is most definitely privileged. He even has an advantage in the mere fact that he even is working class by virtue of the fact that he always has a 50% higher chance than others with the same qualifications of being hired for a job. And it shouldn't be offensive to him to point that out. Yeah you might not feel privileged, but all that means is that there are a bunch of people worse off by default for no other reason but they don't look like you. So by voting for Trump, yes there's the slight chance that you might shake things up and have things go in your favour a little bit...but you also throw all of those other people (many of whom Trump has explicitly stated he would screw over) under the bus. The DNC royally ***** up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 It would be unwise to believe that an American college education means you are intelligent . A decade of watching NFL players has taught me that ! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, Keyblade said: Great piece. One thing I'll note is that the white working class guy is most definitely privileged. He even has an advantage in the mere fact that he even is working class by virtue of the fact that he always has a 50% higher chance than others with the same qualifications of being hired for a job. And it shouldn't be offensive to him to point that out. Yeah you might not feel privileged, but all that means is that there are a bunch of people worse off by default for no other reason but they don't look like you. So by voting for Trump, yes there's the slight chance that you might shake things up and have things go in your favour a little bit...but you also throw all of those other people (many of whom Trump has explicitly stated he would screw over) under the bus. The DNC royally ***** up. They don't feel privileged though. That's the key. Trump ran an election based on how people feel and that's why he won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, StefanAVFC said: They don't feel privileged though. That's the key. Trump ran an election based on how people feel and that's why he won. Yep. But I don't know, I would expect a bit more nuance especially considering a lot of them are college educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: Yep. But I don't know, I would expect a bit more nuance especially considering a lot of them are college educated. The people voting for Trump in white working class areas without college degrees and white college educated voted for different reasons. Research the alt-right. Proper gross sub-culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: The people voting for Trump in white working class areas without college degrees and white college educated voted for different reasons. Research the alt-right. Proper gross sub-culture. I'm way too familiar with the alt-right for my own good. But wait, they're supposed to be the college educated ones? Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, StefanAVFC said: The people voting for Trump in white working class areas without college degrees and white college educated voted for different reasons. Research the alt-right. Proper gross sub-culture. Yep, loads of demographics voted for him for a variety of different reasons. He got an awful lot of Mexican votes too. Why? Because they want rid of the illegal immigrants who they feel are under-cutting them for work. It's such a complicated breakdown of reasons. There's an element of everything in there but I do feel the Democrats messed up going with Hillary when people were feeling so disconnected. They could hardly have picked a more disconnected aloof candidate. "Look at me, I'm a woman and I'm also not Donald Trump", turned out not to be the killer policy they thought it would be. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 The arrogance of her and her campaign to think that simply not being Donald Trump would be enough to win. She didn't even campaign in Michigan, thinking she had it in the bag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I'm way too familiar with the alt-right for my own good. But wait, they're supposed to be the college educated ones? Good grief. Yeah. I read an article last night but I can't find it now. They basically made Donald a 'meme' candidate and used the anonymity of 4chan/reddit to push him through while harboring extremist views. It would be fascinating if it wasn't so dark. To summarise all of my posts as they're a bit messy. The white working class rural demographic are not all racists. There is an element of xenophobia within some but it isn't the main reason they voted the way they did. They saw Trump as a massive **** you to the establishment who forgot about them. The alt-right have no excuse other than causing mayhem and bigotry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted November 10, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 10, 2016 Not sure if it's already been posted, but here's Sanders statement. The Democrats deserved to lose for picking someone like Clinton instead of him, IMO. Quote “Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer. “To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.” 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Not sure if it's already been posted, but here's Sanders statement. The Democrats deserved to lose for picking someone like Clinton instead of him, IMO. Quote “Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer. “To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.” Well that's more than a little bit ironic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Bernie was honestly the most inspiring candidate I've seen in my lifetime and the DNC deserve everything they got for rigging him out of the race. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: Well that's more than a little bit ironic But to be fair to Mr Trump, surely the reason he pays no tax is because he is allowed to set off against his tax liability the hundreds of millions of dollars of his inherited wealth he has lost through his various business deals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, BOF said: I've tried to find those tweets and failed. Linky-poo per chance maybe kthx? I don't do twitter but they are screen grabbed on Sky News , where I saw them Quote Amy Schumer, one of several celebrities who threatened to emigrate if Trump won the election, claims it was made "in jest". Edited November 10, 2016 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, peterms said: But to be fair to Mr Trump, surely the reason he pays no tax is because he is allowed to set off against his tax liability the hundreds of millions of dollars of his inherited wealth he has lost through his various business deals? Isn't there also the theory that he has paid no tax because he's losing money hand over fist and hasn't been eligible for tax in a decade? Or something of that nature? And therefore revealing that he's in fact a useless businessman would destroy his image and 'worth'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, BOF said: Isn't there also the theory that he has paid no tax because he's losing money hand over fist and hasn't been eligible for tax in a decade? Or something of that nature? And therefore revealing that he's in fact a useless businessman would destroy his image and 'worth'. So he's either a useless businessman or a massive tax cheat to the detriment of America? Fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, tonyh29 said: I don't do twitter but they are screen grabbed on Sky news Ah that's Instagram. No wonder I couldn't see them The dim bint. And as for **** Lena Dunham. A bigger word removed you really couldn't find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, StefanAVFC said: So he's either a useless businessman or a massive tax cheat to the detriment of America? Fantastic They're not mutually exclusive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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