NurembergVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 hours ago, mjmooney said: (cough) previous page. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just now, DCJonah said: Based on that it is for a lot of people. Health care, pharmaceutical companies, aggressive police forces, mass incarceration, mass shootings, areas of real poverty. Yet you can flip this on its head see stats wise, it's a great country to live in. This is a debate of facts vs feelings, as it seemingly was for Brexit. Feelings will win every time. Whether you think that's right is where we don't see eye to eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: So then he can't lose. If he succeeds, great (he won't) but if he makes things worse, he'll slag off other people and his supporters will lap it up again. Never-ending depressing loop. I think he can lose but most likely, as per my previous comment, if he doesn't try to do any of the bigger things he said during his campaign. If he doesn't and it's obvious that he hasn't then I think he'll pretty soon feel a backlash and I don't think it would be the kind of weary, headshaking 'I'm disappointed in you' kind of thing that we saw when people realized that Obama was not the change that a lot of people had voted for. The people that he'd be disappointing would likely be a lot noisier, nastier and more demonstrative in their reaction. As I said earlier, I think we should be fearful of what that may bring - be it Trump reborn or the next 'anti-establishment' punt. Edited November 9, 2016 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just listened to his victory speech, to be fair, he came across well and that he was prepared to work hard for the US people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I think what disappoints me most is that we're all told as we grow up that bullies never win, but they do and have. This is a man who has bullied overweight women, disabled people, rape accusers, military veterans, the parents of soldiers killed in actions, Mexicans, Muslims, gay people, people who have had abortions, amongst others and he's won the biggest competition you possibly can. Depressing. Edited November 9, 2016 by StefanAVFC 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Yet you can flip this on its head see stats wise, it's a great country to live in. This is a debate of facts vs feelings, as it seemingly was for Brexit. Feelings will win every time. Whether you think that's right is where we don't see eye to eye. I don't think it's right. I wouldn't have voted for trump, I wanted Hilary to win. Well actually I wanted Sanders to win. And yes it can be a great country to live in, of course it can. There's amazing parts of America. But that's not for everyone, not everyone gets the opportunity to experience that. You can say facts, but how does that help black communities who have seen mass incarceration ripping them apart. The war on drugs with mandatory sentencing which have ruined lives. Or already poor people having to pay a fortune for drugs that are priced up by ridiculous levels. Or innocent people killed by the police and then others beaten by the same police for not being happy about it? It's a country that is completely split. You have an almost utopia for some and a living hell for others all in the same gigantic country. It doesn't really matter who is in charge, it will stay that way IMO. I'm concerned but I don't see it getting significantly worse under trump. It's already pretty low in so many aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 44 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: I disagree - There's a lot of commentary swirling around and this article gives some clearer reflection on the historical race issues that have really been at the undertone of this whole process. Good Morning, America. Welcome To Your White Supremacy http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/11/09/24680638/good-morning-america-welcome-to-your-white-supremacy There you go folks, if you don't agree with the liberal elite, you are a Racist. No doubt some of the Trump voters are, but again, broad brush, no concern for the issues that caused Trump to get in (Why on earth field Hillary over Bernie?). Everyone is wrong, its terrible, the country is full of racists and it is the white mans fault, the Democrats and their supporters are ignoring the issues and picking the easy targets again, until they wake up and deal with the issues that got Trump elected, things will not improve. And most of the problems identified in that patronising drivel above have worsened under Obama (or at the very least become more public). As a side note, "Nice" to see that the enlightened liberals who do not support Trump are burning flags, smashing up cars and buildings and generally causing "mischief" on the streets! Edited November 9, 2016 by TheStagMan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I don't think it's right. I wouldn't have voted for trump, I wanted Hilary to win. Well actually I wanted Sanders to win. And yes it can be a great country to live in, of course it can. There's amazing parts of America. But that's not for everyone, not everyone gets the opportunity to experience that. You can say facts, but how does that help black communities who have seen mass incarceration ripping them apart. The war on drugs with mandatory sentencing which have ruined lives. Or already poor people having to pay a fortune for drugs that are priced up by ridiculous levels. Or innocent people killed by the police and then others beaten by the same police for not being happy about it? It's a country that is completely split. You have an almost utopia for some and a living hell for others all in the same gigantic country. It doesn't really matter who is in charge, it will stay that way IMO. I'm concerned but I don't see it getting significantly worse under trump. It's already pretty low in so many aspects. I think the absolute enormity of the country doesn't help with a lot of that. Combined with the runaway capitalism (which is a more right wing principle) and that segregation wasn't that long ago. Mentioning race related brutality and drug costs is weird though as they are led by the right wing. I think we should agree to disagree. We're nearly holding the same opinion with slight differences on how we got there anyway. Edited November 9, 2016 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'm just simply surprised you all know so much about American politics. I know **** all apart from trump is a bit of a lunatic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: There you go folks, if you don't agree with the liberal elite, you are a Racist. No doubt some of the Trump voters are, but again, broad brush, no concern for the issues that caused Trump to get in (Why on earth field Hilary over Bernie?). Everyone is wrong, its terrible, the country is full of racists and it is the white mans fault, the Democrats and their supporters are ignoring the issues and picking the easy targets again, until they wake up and deal with the issues that got Trump elected, things will not improve. And most of the problems identified in that patronising drivel above have worsened under Obama (or at the very least become more public). As a side note, "Nice" to see that the enlightened liberals who do not support Trump are burning flags, smashing up cars and buildings and generally causing "mischief" on the streets! The right-wing anti-PC brigade are all for free speech until it's turned back on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I think the absolute enormity of the country doesn't help with a lot of that. Combined with the runaway capitalism (which is a more right wing principle) and that segregation wasn't that long ago. Mentioning race related brutality and drug costs is weird though as they are led by the right wing. I think we should agree to disagree. We're nearly holding the same opinion with slight differences on how we got there anyway. Why would mentioning them be weird? It's an example of how shit the country is for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: The right-wing anti-PC brigade are all for free speech until it's turned back on them. That's not the point though is it. If they (the "Right wing Anti PC brigade") were coming out and saying things lumping all manner of people together in a stereotype, they would be/are (rightly) berated for it, but when it is in the other direction, it is open season. "Your white and middle class, everything is your fault and you are a racist" is basically the theme of that article, and therefore you are wrong and aren't entitled to a say. Just like the left wing liberals all love democracy until the vote goes against them. If it was Trump supporters rioting in the streets, the condemnation would be absolute, but because it is left wing students and Hillary supporters, its being covered like they are the champions of humanity. For what it is worth, I am not in support of Trump. What I am in support of is democracy - WHATEVER the result (even if I don't like it). I am also for people being treated equally regardless of their skin colour (including people whose skin is white). The whole thing is just a **** up from start to finish. Neither Trump nor Hillary should have been anywhere near this contest. The two worst possible candidates. It was like neither side wanted to win! Edited November 9, 2016 by TheStagMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Why would mentioning them be weird? It's an example of how shit the country is for some people. Because you're using them as examples of why it can't get worse under Trump when both are/were things caused by right wing ideals. Trump is more right wing than anyone in that office in decades. How could it not get worse? Edited November 9, 2016 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I think it a sweeping generalisation to say much of America is racist, but it's pretty certain from the way Trump campaigned that he is. That's what worries me more, not how or why he won, but what someone with his personality traits does with so much power in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, TheStagMan said: NATO says Hello. I hate this argument. The EU has existed since the Maastricht treaty in 1993. 33 years ago. And for the first 10-15 years was in its infancy. The EU has NOT prevented war in Europe for longer than ever before, it was NATO and the UN and a collective fear of the USSR that kept Europeans from fighting each other since the end of World War 2 (48 years until the fledgling EU was born). Prior to this, the EEC (created in 1957 by the treaty of Rome) was a trading block, not a peacekeeping force, not a political union, and was very very different from the EU of today. It had no role in preventing wars. What it did do was bring the belligerent countries of the past closer through trade. That may have had a place in making them more amenable to each other, but it was NATO, the UN and the cold war that really kept Europe together. Apologies for going off topic. Weird , Your post is quoting me for something I didn't say , but I agree with your off topic comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I think it a sweeping generalisation to say much of America is racist, but it's pretty certain from the way Trump campaigned that he is. That's what worries me more, not how or why he won, but what someone with his personality traits does with so much power in the future. I think there was definitely quite a large racist vote in there but it was a big **** you to the establishment (by electing a billionaire from a billionaire family) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Because you're using them as examples of why it can't get worse under Trump when both are/were things caused by right wing ideals. Trump is more right wing than anyone in that office in decades. How could it not get worse? I didn't say it can't get worse. I said in some aspects I don't think it can get much worse. And in the case of police brutality I don't think it can realistically get much worse than what we've seen recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 The voter demographic will be interesting, who did and didn't actually vote for Trump will be fascinating. Apparently just over 49% of Americans didn't vote at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just now, DCJonah said: And in the case of police brutality I don't think it can realistically get much worse than what we've seen recently. How do we improve it though? The answer isn't disregarding the black lives matter movement and introducing more stop and frisk, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Just now, OutByEaster? said: The voter demographic will be interesting, who did and didn't actually vote for Trump will be fascinating. Apparently just over 49% of Americans didn't vote at all. By race and gender. Edited November 9, 2016 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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