Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I have in the past spent entire evenings reading bushisms. I miss that man, he was a comedy goldmine. This is definitely the best one. Edited November 9, 2016 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Think about it. More people voted for Hillary but it's Republicans who'll be controlling every branch of government. Tell me again how white rural America feels disenfranchised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Davkaus said: I just....How does he look in the mirror each morning and decide that this is a good look Orange is the new black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'm strangely not bothered about this at all. I genuinely thought I'd feel worse about this than I would Brexit, but it doesn't come close. Maybe i'm incredibly naive/ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I desperately didn't want him to win and I do worry about what it will do to the world. But America was a god awful country before him and I'm sure it would have continued to be a god awful country with Hilary. Things could get a lot worse but the unknown at least brings small hope that there could be some positive changes. In some instances I don't see how much worse Trump could actually make it. The country is a mess and while it could be one of the most positive forces on Earth it consistently chooses not to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) It's potentially less damaging than Brexit in the medium term, IMO. Trump is out of there in 4 years. We probably won't even have left the EU in 4 years, we'll be feeling the uncertainty of Brexit when Trump's replacement has their feet up on the desk in the Oval Office. Edited November 9, 2016 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted November 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Tell me again how white rural America feels disenfranchised. 'White' aren't a special case. Some of them will feel they are and if they think it's a white verses ethnic thing, then they have dumb racist reasons for their plight. But that doesn't make their plight any less real. It doesn't mean there aren't 10's of millions of americans that have been handed a shitty deal, and they happen to be white. Lots of americans used to paint toys, used to make tyres, used to pack meat or press the components for radios. Invisible dead end jobs. We got rid of those jobs in america by having 'trade' deals that meant Vietnam paints the toys and China makes the radios and some guy somewhere in the Ideal boardroom or the Apple boardroom makes a billion. Was Hillary going to change that? Absolutely not. More of the same. Will Trump change that? Who knows, probably not. You'd surely take a punt on 'probably not ahead of 'no', wouldn't you? But it is fair to say that 'white' makes up around about 70% of the voting public. So when people say Latino is a key demographic, or black is a key demographic or any other 'key' demographic, they are missing the point. Or maybe they aren't missing the point? Maybe they look at the 70% of voters and presumed to know them, and presumed to only have to pitch for the 13% of this group or 8% of that group on top. Well that thinking just took a kicking. Which must be a good thing in the long run. It might be the only good thing. We'll see won't we. I dislike Trump, he wouldn't be invited to one of my candle light suppers any time soon. But if I was poor and American and lived somewhere anonymous and I've just given the Democrats 8 years and I was still poor and still couldn't see a way out. You know what, I might take a punt on trying something else. I'd be interested to see if the black kids of Tulsa, or Charlotte, or San Diego that have seen their friends shot by the police during Obama's 8 year administration of hope will perceive the police to be any more or less racist once an orange guy is president. Some of my views tend towards the left. I can understand swathes of americans voting Trump. It was the equivalent of 'none of the above'. It was a punt on something changing. Both parties need to do a bit of navel gazing over their attitudes to everyday mom n pop type people. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 59 minutes ago, Straggler said: I am a historian. Got my BA and everything. If I was looking at Trump as a neo-fascist I would suggest that he has no intention of trying to disarm anyone. His core support is the gun toting, open carrying 2nd amendment crowd. However if you are looking for a group of people to turn into a militia to help weed out "enemies of the state" like Muslims and help round up groups that do not fit the new image of the USA then you could do worse than start with these folks. To use Hitler as a classic example of a Fascist ruler, the first thing he did was shore up his support in those of German descent (the Aryans if you will). He then used that support as the will of the people to weed out opposition as unpatriotic and then beyond that drove division between the good Germans (his supporters) and the enemies of Germany (Jews). The process of law became subverted to serve only Hitler and his party rather than an independent body and all of this was done with the support of the electorate. By the time anyone woke up to what was happening, the state and Hitler had a vice like grip on the media, the judiciary and the military. He had also encouraged his own support to brutally put down using violence any opposition voice. Proper opposition was unable to form for fear of or the actuality of internment or violence. A modern day Fascist would be mental to disarm the average gun carrying citizen, they would almost certainly start by bringing them into the fold and pointing at a common enemy for them to unite against. Hitler did not come to power through a coup or a revolution (although to be fair he did try the former). Hitler was elected and much of what happened following his election can be described as the democratic will of the German people. It certainly was not the domination of the German people through military might. I could pretty easily draw lines between how Hitler came to power and how Trump got elected, but I have been facepalming enough this morning and don't need to do it anymore. Me too and focusing on the same period. I still think it's a massive stretch to try and compare the two situations. Germany was an economic basket case, US 2016 is still the strongest economy in the world. Germany was carrying a massive post war chip on its shoulder having lost WW1, the US 2016 is a peerless global military power. The Brownshirts were a Party affiliated para-military force highly active on the streets. There is no and there could be no equivalent in the US. Germany's state political and security institutions were young, weak & overmatched. US institutions are mature, diverse & extremely strong, backed by a robust civil society and the greatest English language document ever written, the US Constitution. Clearly we could go on with this list for pages, suffice it to say I think the comparison is baseless, alarmist & frankly ludicrous. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Quote The election of Donald Trump to the Presidency is nothing less than a tragedy for the American republic, a tragedy for the Constitution, and a triumph for the forces, at home and abroad, of nativism, authoritarianism, misogyny, and racism. Trump’s shocking victory, his ascension to the Presidency, is a sickening event in the history of the United States and liberal democracy. On January 20, 2017, we will bid farewell to the first African-American President—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—and witness the inauguration of a con who did little to spurn endorsement by forces of xenophobia and white supremacy. It is impossible to react to this moment with anything less than revulsion and profound anxiety. All along, Trump seemed like a twisted caricature of every rotten reflex of the radical right. That he has prevailed, that he has won this election, is a crushing blow to the spirit; it is an event that will likely cast the country into a period of economic, political, and social uncertainty that we cannot yet imagine. That the electorate has, in its plurality, decided to live in Trump’s world of vanity, hate, arrogance, untruth, and recklessness, his disdain for democratic norms, is a fact that will lead, inevitably, to all manner of national decline and suffering. http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-american-tragedy-donald-trump 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 HRC giving her concession speech now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Orange is the new black. (cough) previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-american-tragedy-donald-trump Fair to say they haven't taken it well, then?! I can't post the link without getting in trouble for lack of quotes (I'm using a phone) but Glenn Greenwald has written a corking article in The Intercept titled "Democrats, Trump and the dangerous ongoing refusal to learn the lessons of Brexit". He's nailed most of the themes covered in here today in one article. Not normally his biggest fan but it's well worth a read - or maybe some kind soul could post the link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Awol said: Fair to say they haven't taken it well, then?! I can't post the link without getting in trouble for lack of quotes (I'm using a phone) but Glenn Greenwald has written a corking article in The Intercept titled "Democrats, Trump and the dangerous ongoing refusal to learn the lessons of Brexit". He's nailed most of the themes covered in here today in one article. Not normally his biggest fan but it's well worth a read - or maybe some kind soul could post the link... https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/ Quote THE PARALLELS BETWEEN the U.K.’s shocking approval of the Brexit referendum in June and the U.S.’ even more shocking election of Donald Trump as president last night are overwhelming. Elites (outside of populist right-wing circles) aggressively unified across ideological lines in opposition to both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Awol said: Fair to say they haven't taken it well, then?! Who do you mean by 'they'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Good post Crispy. I want to post this too as I think it's relevant to what you're saying. http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/ Quote I was born and raised in Trump country. My family are Trump people. If I hadn't moved away and gotten this ridiculous job, I'd be voting for him. I know I would. It's a real city v country divide. One part I strongly disagree with though Chris, is about the black people being shot. Trump has come out and strongly gone against black lives matter. I can't see how a black voter would look at Trump and think anything would get better in that respect under him. Edited November 9, 2016 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) For me, the difference between Brexit is that while I oppose Brexit, and think that there was an awful lot of hate and bigotry behind peddled by the Leave campaigns (and yes, there were lies and misinformation from remain too), fundamentally the vote wasn't about that. It was about an action that was being carried out by the government, that will define thios country for decades. It's not for Farage and the other clearings in the woods in UKIP, nor anyone else campaigning. It was a long term constitutional question. Voting for Trump is a vote directly for a racist, for a sexist, and for a liar. A vote to put that man in to the most powerful office in the world. Even if I disagree, I can understand some sane reasons that someone might think that it's in the long term interests of Britain to leave the EU. I can't comprehend how millions of people have decided that a man like Donald Trump belongs in the white house. Edited November 9, 2016 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 33 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Orange is the new black. Can I be the first to point out that Mooney beat you to that one 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: One part I strongly disagree with though Chris, is about the black people being shot. Trump has come out and strongly gone against black lives matter. I can't see how a black voter would loom at Trump and think anything would get better in that respect under him. saw this some while back , usual caveat about accuracy of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, Awol said: Me too and focusing on the same period. I still think it's a massive stretch to try and compare the two situations. Germany was an economic basket case, US 2016 is still the strongest economy in the world. Germany was carrying a massive post war chip on its shoulder having lost WW1, the US 2016 is a peerless global military power. The Brownshirts were a Party affiliated para-military force highly active on the streets. There is no and there could be no equivalent in the US. Germany's state political and security institutions were young, weak & overmatched. US institutions are mature, diverse & extremely strong, backed by a robust civil society and the greatest English language document ever written, the US Constitution. Clearly we could go on with this list for pages, suffice it to say I think the comparison is baseless, alarmist & frankly ludicrous. Oh thank christ, I was starting to think everybody had completely taken leave of their senses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I think that an important fact that the above image misses is that deaths per 100,000 arrests doesn't matter, when the problem is that a non-trivial number of black people are shot instead of being arrested so they're not included in that arrest stat Edited November 9, 2016 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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