Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Without wanting to get down into the ludicrousness of Trump representing the dawn of neo-fascism, the historians among you (particularly Mooney) will know fascism requires a state monopoly on violence - and therefore state coercion. I wish anyone who tries good luck disarming the US public of their 300 million firearms. Fascism... It's face-palm-tastic hysteria. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Awol said: Without wanting to get down into the ludicrousness of Trump representing the dawn of neo-fascism, the historians among you (particularly Mooney) will know fascism requires a state monopoly on violence - and therefore state coercion. I wish anyone who tries good luck disarming the US public of their 300 million firearms. Fascism... It's face-palm-tastic hysteria. This is true and it's basically literally why the 2nd amendment exists. Quote "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Apparently all my democrat mates have lost all sense of humor this am!! Oh wait, you love my English banter when were at the bar chatting up birds, but make a few wall jokes and the world is ending!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I just....How does he look in the mirror each morning and decide that this is a good look Orange is the new black. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 51 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: do you think if Donald started creating camps tomorrow and putting Muslims into them he doesn't have to America already has them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: he doesn't have to America already has them one not too far from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 47 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Yep, just replace 'Jews' with 'Muslims' and there you go. I'm not saying he would do this, or that it would happen, but do you think if Donald started creating camps tomorrow and putting Muslims into them, his rabid nationalistic fanbase would speak up about it? When the 'progressive left' speak up about it, won't we just be told that we're PC and Muslims are dangerous? I know it's a hugely improbable scenario but I don't think it's implausible by any stretch especially based on policy which Hitler started with ID badges for Jews. Trump already said he wants to do the same with Muslims. serious answer - no, hitler was a far better politician, without the media and social media tracking him i think people would be surprised at how antisemitic he was during his election campaign, he kept it in the south, he didnt do it in say hamburg, he knew where he was and what the locals wanted / needed to hear, when he was there he'd talk about reestablishing the navy, i think trump certainly has that skill in really really basic terms imagine the US losing a war, a muslim politician signing the surrender, 1929's crash happening again, hyperinflation and a muslim shop owner charging americans $1,000 for a loaf of bread...thats the kind of scenario germany faced in the early 1930s trump did steal the economic recovery through infrastructure idea though...you build roads out of a recession, or is that autobahns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: serious answer - no, hitler was a far better politician, without the media and social media tracking him i think people would be surprised at how antisemitic he was during his election campaign, he kept it in the south, he didnt do it in say hamburg, he knew where he was and what the locals wanted / needed to hear, when he was there he'd talk about reestablishing the navy, i think trump certainly has that skill Think of all the nasty things Trump has said; he was openly sexist, discriminatory against the disabled, mocked veterans, openly xenophobic and Americans still voted for him in their droves. I think that paragraph can describe Trump (but without the anti-semitism) Is that entirely a protest voice? Or do millions of people share the same views as he does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Think of all the nasty things Trump has said; he was openly sexist, discriminatory against the disabled, mocked veterans, openly xenophobic and Americans still voted for him in their droves. I think that paragraph can describe Trump (but without the anti-semitism) Is that entirely a protest voice? Or do millions of people share the same views as he does? ive said this result says way more about clinton and the messed up job obama has done than it does about trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just now, Dom_Wren said: ive said this result says way more about clinton and the messed up job obama has done than it does about trump. I think it says a lot about both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just now, StefanAVFC said: I think it says a lot about both. maybe not way more, that might be a stretch, but it does say more about her and him, just look at the fact he got in!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Straggler Posted November 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, Awol said: Without wanting to get down into the ludicrousness of Trump representing the dawn of neo-fascism, the historians among you (particularly Mooney) will know fascism requires a state monopoly on violence - and therefore state coercion. I wish anyone who tries good luck disarming the US public of their 300 million firearms. Fascism... It's face-palm-tastic hysteria. I am a historian. Got my BA and everything. If I was looking at Trump as a neo-fascist I would suggest that he has no intention of trying to disarm anyone. His core support is the gun toting, open carrying 2nd amendment crowd. However if you are looking for a group of people to turn into a militia to help weed out "enemies of the state" like Muslims and help round up groups that do not fit the new image of the USA then you could do worse than start with these folks. To use Hitler as a classic example of a Fascist ruler, the first thing he did was shore up his support in those of German descent (the Aryans if you will). He then used that support as the will of the people to weed out opposition as unpatriotic and then beyond that drove division between the good Germans (his supporters) and the enemies of Germany (Jews). The process of law became subverted to serve only Hitler and his party rather than an independent body and all of this was done with the support of the electorate. By the time anyone woke up to what was happening, the state and Hitler had a vice like grip on the media, the judiciary and the military. He had also encouraged his own support to brutally put down using violence any opposition voice. Proper opposition was unable to form for fear of or the actuality of internment or violence. A modern day Fascist would be mental to disarm the average gun carrying citizen, they would almost certainly start by bringing them into the fold and pointing at a common enemy for them to unite against. Hitler did not come to power through a coup or a revolution (although to be fair he did try the former). Hitler was elected and much of what happened following his election can be described as the democratic will of the German people. It certainly was not the domination of the German people through military might. I could pretty easily draw lines between how Hitler came to power and how Trump got elected, but I have been facepalming enough this morning and don't need to do it anymore. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just to lighten the mood..... Can we blame Gabby for Trump's election victory yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Exactly, Straggler. He has a ready-made S.A. He doesn't need to disarm his opponents, most of them are the anti-gun people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Straggler said: I am a historian. Got my BA and everything. If I was looking at Trump as a neo-fascist I would suggest that he has no intention of trying to disarm anyone. His core support is the gun toting, open carrying 2nd amendment crowd. However if you are looking for a group of people to turn into a militia to help weed out "enemies of the state" like Muslims and help round up groups that do not fit the new image of the USA then you could do worse than start with these folks. To use Hitler as a classic example of a Fascist ruler, the first thing he did was shore up his support in those of German descent (the Aryans if you will). He then used that support as the will of the people to weed out opposition as unpatriotic and then beyond that drove division between the good Germans (his supporters) and the enemies of Germany (Jews). The process of law became subverted to serve only Hitler and his party rather than an independent body and all of this was done with the support of the electorate. By the time anyone woke up to what was happening, the state and Hitler had a vice like grip on the media, the judiciary and the military. He had also encouraged his own support to brutally put down using violence any opposition voice. Proper opposition was unable to form for fear of or the actuality of internment or violence. A modern day Fascist would be mental to disarm the average gun carrying citizen, they would almost certainly start by bringing them into the fold and pointing at a common enemy for them to unite against. Hitler did not come to power through a coup or a revolution (although to be fair he did try the former). Hitler was elected and much of what happened following his election can be described as the democratic will of the German people. It certainly was not the domination of the German people through military might. I could pretty easily draw lines between how Hitler came to power and how Trump got elected, but I have been facepalming enough this morning and don't need to do it anymore. Fantastic post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 24 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Think of all the nasty things Trump has said; he was openly sexist, discriminatory against the disabled, mocked veterans, openly xenophobic and Americans still voted for him in their droves. I think that paragraph can describe Trump (but without the anti-semitism) Is that entirely a protest voice? Or do millions of people share the same views as he does? Even if they don't share his views, at the very least it means they're ready to throw those groups under the bus in favour of their 'protest'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 How long before you're not even allowed to use a toaster in the bath anymore , in case Jews see it ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 The last US president elected without winning the popuar vote was this man : Amongst other things he injured himself eating a pretzel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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