TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: yeah but then I'd be inferior to other people as I don't have 300+ friends , even heartless baby eating Tory bastards need to feel loved I suppose you need virtual friends in a post society....er.....society.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 14 minutes ago, Awol said: @Straggler Thing is if they'd voted for Clinton or the UK had voted Remain it's taken as an endorsement of the status quo. Its necessary to utterly reject the prevailing dogma and kick them in the teeth in order for the political elites to reform at all. If they still don't get the message then they'll rightly fade into obscurity and irrelevance to be replaced by new actors. I agree with you Awol. The status quo is not satisfactory, but my concern is that in order to give the establishment a kicking we are turning to the nationalist movement to provide it. There is no credible opposition to either of these positions that represents me. In my mind we are going from bad to worse. There needs to be another option which can offer fairness to the disenfranchised, but does not rely on demonising others. Granted adding my voice into the mix is like peeing in the ocean and expecting it to change colour, but I can't just sit and do nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, BOF said: What this DOES do is reflect incredibly poorly on the American population. I don't think it does. Given a choice between an establishment crook and a political outsider who promised to shake it all up, they chose the loose cannon. What has the establishment done for them (the same applies over here) for the past decade? - nothing - they've been pandering to the elite bankers and so on. It reflects incredibly badly on "the system". Same as Brexit. When the system shafts people, eventually they will throw a spanner into the machine. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, blandy said: I don't think it does. Given a choice between an establishment crook and a political outsider who promised to shake it all up, they chose the loose cannon. What has the establishment done for them (the same applies over here) for the past decade? - nothing - they've been pandering to the elite bankers and so on. It reflects incredibly badly on "the system". Same as Brexit. When the system shafts people, eventually they will throw a spanner into the machine. And on this occasion make him President! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, mjmooney said: They managed to impeach Nixon. Hillary was on the team that did it, wasn't she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, blandy said: I don't think it does. Given a choice between an establishment crook and a political outsider who promised to shake it all up, they chose the loose cannon. What has the establishment done for them (the same applies over here) for the past decade? - nothing - they've been pandering to the elite bankers and so on. It reflects incredibly badly on "the system". Same as Brexit. When the system shafts people, eventually they will throw a spanner into the machine. I guess it then says something about the almost overwhelmingly white voters who rolled the dice and flipped the bird at the establishment knowing full well it would be at the expense of the minorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I blame Tyson Fury. A little under 12 months ago a fat, self proclaimed gypsy king beat the world robot boxing champion. Since then a ginger haired 44 year old englishman has lived in space for 185 days, Leicester won the premier league, Britain did better in the olympics than china/russia, Germany/Europe dismantled borders to let in as many migrants as were able to come, then changed their mind a bit once they realised that there were really rather a lot. Britain voted out of the EU & Now a man that very few people like (including many who voted for him) that really isn't even a politician is in charge of one of the most powerful countries in the world. To top it all it would seem that 2016 is the year that 75,383 celebrities have decided to die. Paddy power are currently offering 80/1 on alien life being proven in 2016, It would seem to be a safe bet that martians will land on the white house lawn on C̶h̶r̶i̶s̶t̶m̶a̶s̶ ̶D̶a̶y̶ Winter festival day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Now a man that very few people like (including many who voted for him) that really isn't even a politician is in charge of one of the most powerful countries in the world. Not yet, he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Clinton is slightly ahead in the popular vote with the results announced so far, despite being way behind in electoral college votes. I don't like FPTP systems, but I can understand them when electing local representatives. It seems like madness when the whole country is voting for the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, snowychap said: Hillary was on the team that did it, wasn't she? I believe she was also called an unethical, dishonest lawyer by the head of the committee ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: I believe she was also called an unethical, dishonest lawyer by the head of the committee ? Sounds like she was over-qualified. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, blandy said: I don't think it does. Given a choice between an establishment crook and a political outsider who promised to shake it all up, they chose the loose cannon. What has the establishment done for them (the same applies over here) for the past decade? - nothing - they've been pandering to the elite bankers and so on. It reflects incredibly badly on "the system". Same as Brexit. When the system shafts people, eventually they will throw a spanner into the machine. I think all of that is correct for a section of the electorate. But it is also true that there is an element of the electorate that he has spent most or all of his campaign telling (the less well off) that their problem lies with the various kind of immigrant. That your job, your lack of a job, your pay cheque are all being affected by 'others' and that he'll sort that out if he gets in. That resonated with the right wing and it resonated with the hate-filled (same thing?), while no doubt creating some hate along the way that didn't exist previously. It's analogous to Brexit in the sense that there were 2 (maybe 3) kinds of Brexiter. The ones who genuinely voted for it because they believed that getting their sovereignty back would be good for the country, and then there were the closet racists who are now much less closetted. The 3rd being the ones who protest voted against Cameron purely for shits and giggles because he was unpopular (pyrrhic victory). I think you're slightly understating the sheer ugliness of what a Trump win represents in the population and overstating the element who were merely 'shaking up the establishment'. Both of those elements do exist but IMO the hate-filled former has been grossly underestimated (again...). And it's becoming a worldwide trend. Next up France & Germany ... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 so the mad wasp only won it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's disgusting that a protest voice is a voice for a guy who is, or has been openly misogynistic, xenophobic and sexist. But begrudgingly @blandy I think you have a point in the case of the US and the UK. But as we've seen that this protest vote has happened in two major countries, with the aftermath of the protest being a shift to the right in people's opinions. What happens if Le Pen wins in France? She's not an anti-establishment candidate. I think that'll be the litmus test whether this phase of nationalism really is just a protest vote or whether it's taken hold of the planet properly. I'm worried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Straggler said: The results of this election and the Brexit vote have really begun to shift my opinion on humanity as a whole. I've had the good fortune to travel round a lot of the world and found kindness and good people everywhere I went. Living abroad too gave me a real sensation that in the main people are generous and fair minded. Our species is inherently selfish, violent and ugly. There are exceptions of course. Plenty of them. But we're still savages. Look at everything we do. Look at what we do to the planet. For every person trying to fix it there are thousands cutting it down, burning it, killing it etc. We vote for who can do the most for me me me, not for us. Again, there are exceptions, but to me humanity on the whole is a very ugly parasite and that will never change. Ever. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy life with the good people, but don't be fooled as to what (the collective) 'we' are fundamentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Whatever about the result the true winner was democracy ...etc so on 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I'm kicking myself for not putting money on it. On the radio last night someone was saying that polls, which have generally been wrong, were very close. One guy was saying that like with Brexit there are a lot of 'shy brexiteers'. Those who plan to vote that way but don't tell anyone for risk of being branded. He said it was possibly the same in the US, many were either lying or refusing to saying who was getting their vote. In the car I really thought Trump was a possibility based on this and should have chucked a £20 at it Edited November 9, 2016 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2016 Godwin's Law is hereby suspended. OK, I'm a treehugging pinko, so naturally I was dismayed by the election of Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Thatcher, Cameron, etc. This is immeasurably worse. Even the worst of them had some semblance of intelligence and pragmatic moderation. This guy is a stupid, loathsome and dangerous individual. As with Brexit, Pandora's Box has been opened, and some very nasty stuff has already started spewing forth. The parallels with fascism in the 1930s are absolutely NOT an overreaction, they are bang on the money. Shit just got real, and reality just got shit. This will not end well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It feels sort of cyclical that this sort of shit is happening right on the final fringes of the living memory to the second world war and the holocaust. Like enough time has passed where it's ok to do all that shit again. Obviously it's no longer ever going to be as crude as that, but demonisation, blame, and violence is going to happen - well it already has been as the black, muslim and LGBT community will obviously testify to. No doubt the right wing media will be reporting on an awful lot of "lone wolfs", and trying to blame just a minority of screw-ups, and ignoring the fact the social context has created an environment for their violent spirit to thrive unchecked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, BOF said: Our species is inherently selfish, violent and ugly. There are exceptions of course. Plenty of them. But we're still savages. Look at everything we do. Look at what we do to the planet. For every person trying to fix it there are thousands cutting it down, burning it, killing it etc. We vote for who can do the most for me me me, not for us. Again, there are exceptions, but to me humanity on the whole is a very ugly parasite and that will never change. Ever. I think you would get on really well with my wife. I don't agree with her either, but then I lose most of my arguments at home. She was saying months ago that Trump would win because she has not faith in the humanity of people in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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