bickster Posted February 10 Moderator Share Posted February 10 You all appear to be on the wrong side of the Atlantic Ocean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 32 minutes ago, sidcow said: The irony is if that is the case it will be Bidens IRA driving it. The US is onshoring jobs left right and centre. A serious fightback against everything going to China masses of companies either abandoning Europe altogether for USA or choosing USA for their new locations instead of Europe. The IRA is going to be studied in history and economic classes in the future as a ground breaking piece of hugely successful legislation. Bidens Irish Republican Army? I jest, the Inflation Reduction Act is a very good piece of legislation. In particular taxing stock buybacks. Edited February 10 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, CVByrne said: So you are against Starmer and Labour and also against the Tories? I am utterly opposed to the thieving tories, I don’t support Starmer’s version of Labour as better administrators of the centre right. I won’t be voting for either of them, it would be endorsing something I don’t want. But yeah, wrong thread really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) Look. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic. You can put up a pure candidate who is Ideologically pure but what good is it if they can't win? You just let the like of your Trump or your Brexiter Tory in by the back door. If you can gather a majority of voters behind your more pragmatic candidate you at least keep the other lot out. Politics used to be about pragmatism. Social media seems to have polarised it and it is leading us all to a bad place, whether this side of the Atlantic or the other. Edited February 11 by Captain_Townsend 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 So he wants NATO members to spend more money on weapons. Wonder if it's weapons made by the US military industry or just weapons made by someone else he want's them to buy? Always been against Sweden joining NATO and still am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 7 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: Look. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic. You can put up a pure candidate who is Ideologically pure but what good is it if they can't win? You just let the like of your Trump or your Brexiter Tory in by the back door. If you can gather a majority of voters behind your more pragmatic candidate you at least keep the other lot out. Politics used to be about pragmatism. Social media seems to have polarised it and it is leading us all to a bad place, whether this side of the Atlantic or the other. This. This. This. This 100% The problem is people have gone for politics as a religion now. The doctrine is the doctrine, if you step out of line with it you are an enemy. No compromise, no pragmatism. If there is a moderate in a party and they dare think of voting with opposition they are excommunicated. Catholic Church playbook is the political one now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 2 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: As much as I hate Trump (and trust me I fear him returning to office). Why he's so effective as a political animal is because there is so much truth at the core of what he says. Take NATO, he's right that other countries had decided they didn't need to meet the 2% spending target as the strength of NATO was really the US. So other countries cut their spending on military and spent it on other things. Now a proper politician would just use the political skill to get other countries to honour their commitment. Trump though uses his vitriolic language to make personal political gain from something that is dangerous. His position on China, he was right. He attacked China for the exact things they were doing, currency manipulation, having US outsource all their production to China and China was stealing their IP. He has won so much support on Immigration. It's the oldest populist playbook, you need to find an enemy within to blame for all the ills of the people. Trump has managed to make himself viewed as the one to stop illegal immigration, the key in this to voters is "why are we letting people enter illegally". People don't fully understand international law on Asylum etc.. they ust see people entering illegally and Trump as one to stop it. It's why he has been successful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted February 11 Popular Post Share Posted February 11 Do you think he's self aware enough to realise the irony of it coming from someone famous for never paying his bills? Sorry, silly question 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 10/02/2024 at 08:42, CVByrne said: I do feel this is a cycle, in 2028 people will be tired of the division, tired of populism. The candidates will have new issues to focus on. You can see the beginnings of the end for the culture wars already. I feel this election in US will focus on actual wars (foreign policy) and immigration. Trump will also win lots of votes from the line the deep state is trying to take him down via the courts, this is 100% a political friend to him outside of courts. Areas where Trump and Biden are politically close on is Trade (especially with China). That seems very optimistic. Many thought that after his loss in 2020, Trumpism would decline. But here we are 4 years (and an insurrection) later and he’s running again. it will take a lot more time, I fear. If Trump loses again in 2024, he might run again in 2028. If not him, DeSantis or others might try and run on the same divisiveness. It is the main model of gaining votes within the GOP these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 6 minutes ago, AXD said: That seems very optimistic. Many thought that after his loss in 2020, Trumpism would decline. But here we are 4 years (and an insurrection) later and he’s running again. it will take a lot more time, I fear. If Trump loses again in 2024, he might run again in 2028. If not him, DeSantis or others might try and run on the same divisiveness. It is the main model of gaining votes within the GOP these days. That was naive. Why would people think that? By losing he can always run again at every election until he dies. What Trump did and what Brexit did was tap into the real anger of the people who have felt the brunt of the real decline in wages since 2008. In America both Republicans and Democrats were for big business, for companies maximising profits by outsourcing work to cheaper countries and importing cheap labour too. Once that was tapped into the voter base is there for everyone to see and the approach to tap into and exploit it politically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 11 VT Supporter Share Posted February 11 My favourite Trump hot take is that he’s been conviction free for 70 odd years and suddenly he’s a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 11 VT Supporter Share Posted February 11 3 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Yeah but Biden is old so it's not worth trying to keep this guy out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 3 hours ago, sne said: So he wants NATO members to spend more money on weapons. Wonder if it's weapons made by the US military industry or just weapons made by someone else he want's them to buy? Always been against Sweden joining NATO and still am. It’s not clear if he’s talking about NATO members. I assumed he was talking about non-NATO members asking him if the US would protect them from a russian attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: Do you think he's self aware enough to realise the irony of it coming from someone famous for never paying his bills? Sorry, silly question He doesn't care even if he's not self aware enough. All he cares about is how to essentially use words to win votes. Use words to get media attention. He craves the power he doesn't have anymore. He's hurt by the failure of his election defeat. He's bitter and vengeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Just now, Genie said: It’s not clear if he’s talking about NATO members. I assumed he was talking about non-NATO members asking him if the US would protect them from a russian attack. OK. His old line was that he wanted NATO members to spend 2% BNP was it? on defense or his US would let them rot or something. I'd hazard a guess that he wanted them to spent it on US made weapons so they'd get the money rather than on weapons made in France, Germany, England, Sweden and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: My favourite Trump hot take is that he’s been conviction free for 70 odd years and suddenly he’s a criminal. To me history doesn't repeat itself but it does rhymes. Julius Caesar started a civil war because the moment he gave up his immunity from prosecution with his consulship and command of the legions in Gaul his political enemies would strike. Trumps enemies going after him when he loses political immunity of the Presidents Office could lead him to refusal to relinquish powers if he wins this re-election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 6 minutes ago, sne said: OK. His old line was that he wanted NATO members to spend 2% BNP was it? on defense or his US would let them rot or something. I'd hazard a guess that he wanted them to spent it on US made weapons so they'd get the money rather than on weapons made in France, Germany, England, Sweden and so on. It’s a suspiciously short clip missing the context of the answer he is giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 6 minutes ago, sne said: OK. His old line was that he wanted NATO members to spend 2% BNP was it? on defense or his US would let them rot or something. I'd hazard a guess that he wanted them to spent it on US made weapons so they'd get the money rather than on weapons made in France, Germany, England, Sweden and so on. You say he wanted, it's part of the Treaty countries signed to join NATO. The countries he was talking about were in breach of that treaty. Let's be clear, his point is 100% correct. His approach to addressing his point is 100% wrong and dangerous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 International law enshrines two main categories of coercive responses against treaty breaches: (i) the suspension or termination of treaties under the law of treaties; and (ii) the non-performance of obligations justified as a countermeasure under the law of State responsibility. So according to international law. The US not honouring the mutual defence of countries who themselves are in breach of the Treaty is legitimate countermeasure. What Trump is fully aware of is that in the 2% minimum expenditure is a requirement for 20% of that money to be spent on new Equipment. This means trade for the US and money for the US Weapons companies. I do wish people were better at critical thinking. People just consume headlines these days and consume partisan media headlines at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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