markavfc40 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) My biggest concern with all this is that he is legitimising the views of the racists and xenophobes amongst us. Not the ones that have been openly far right nut jobs for years but those that have kept it a bit quite and only go full throttle when they realise they are in the company of like minded people. I have noticed since Trump came into power and the EU referendum that a number of people I know have suddenly become open with xenophobic views. I would be well into double figures on those that I have initially debated with on social media then had to unfollow as became sick of getting wound up by them. Trump will obviously influence some people but his biggest impact has been in making people feel comfortable in expressing their far right views. Edited November 29, 2017 by markavfc40 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 29, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 29, 2017 The first video is a dark-haired Dutch guy. Not a Muslim, not a refugee, not an immigrant. He is literally spouting fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 3 hours ago, mjmooney said: Probably worth a formal complaint to Twitter about him promoting hate crime. I was just thinking the same. Imagine what he'd do though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Keyblade said: Because you shouldn't stoop to their level. And also because the message wouldn't go through to them and they'll just be outraged instead of seeing the irony. ya, but it would be funny, and funny is a good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: The first video is a dark-haired Dutch guy. Not a Muslim, not a refugee, not an immigrant. He is literally spouting fake news. So, you have the power to discern an individuals religious beliefs from how they look... Now, you may have watched the vid and read a detailed teardown that provided that info., but I only make this point to emphasize the care required online. Especially with my sorts lurking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I want him to come to the UK, because I've never been more motivated to go protest against the thick racist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 hour ago, villakram said: So, you have the power to discern an individuals religious beliefs from how they look... Now, you may have watched the vid and read a detailed teardown that provided that info., but I only make this point to emphasize the care required online. Especially with my sorts lurking about The video was originally taken offline in the Netherlands as it was being used to falsely incite hate. Fake news, if you will. The Dutch prosecution service have confirmed that the boy was born and raised in the Netherlands, and was charged at the time. No comment has been made about his religion. Presumably because a dickhead is a dickhead, regardless of whether they've been indoctrinated with fairy tales of any description. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: My biggest concern with all this is that he is legitimising the views of the racists and xenophobes amongst us. Not the ones that have been openly far right nut jobs for years but those that have kept it a bit quite and only go full throttle when they realise they are in the company of like minded people. I have noticed since Trump came into power and the EU referendum that a number of people I know have suddenly become open with xenophobic views. I would be well into double figures on those that I have initially debated with on social media then had to unfollow as became sick of getting wound up by them. Trump will obviously influence some people but his biggest impact has been in making people feel comfortable in expressing their far right views. In many ways Trump is actually just part of the peeling off of that thin veneer of illusion. I agree with you in that people seem more comfortable voicing extreme opinions in the current climate. Thing is, those racist views are held by some people and unlikely to change off the back of someone telling them they shouldn't. There's a way of thinking that says it's at least better to be honest about that and appreciate it for what it is. Ultimately you can't talk to people about why they hold those views and start to challenge them if they are refusing to admit they hold them in the first place. Pretending stuff doesn't exist when it does is denial in anyone's money. Most people that come out with xenophobic comments are not indoctrinated racists in my experience. There is just as much power in the division of remainers and brexiteers for example as there is in racism. People culling their facebook friends in the wake of the EU referendum (Not aimed at your comment specifically mark - I know lots of people in RL who did this) would do well to remember that. With that principal in mind there's an argument to be had that it's better to have an openly racist rampant corporation led capitalist in charge of America. Internally, it's kind of their thing historically and it describes their foreign policy since the second world war perfectly imo. Hilary was the vote to keep up the facade and they went with the "guy who says it like it is" (great guy apparently). "The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." - Frank Zappa 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) @VILLAMARV that is an excellent post mate and if it wasn't for the fact I am just about to get some shut eye I would comment more now on what you said. Edited November 29, 2017 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I presume most of you are asleep but he's just posted this in response to May's comments. It took him a couple of goes to get the right twitter handle as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted November 30, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: I presume most of you are asleep but he's just posted this in response to May's comments. It took him a couple of goes to get the right twitter handle as well. Unsurprising childish comment. Actually surprised how restrained it is (for him.) Speculation over here is that the Mueller investigation is getting pretty close and Trump is finally feeling the pressure. Hence his behavior over the past few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted November 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2017 30 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I presume most of you are asleep but he's just posted this in response to May's comments. It took him a couple of goes to get the right twitter handle as well. It's the new trade relationship - trading insults. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Discussion of how narcissists try to cope with stress, and other aspects of their coping strategy. Quote ...5. Concluding Remarks This phenomenon is, in fact, an aspect of the entrancing power of the severe narcissist. Even while cognitively aware that he is spinning a false tale – i.e., lying – emotionally, in the moment, the story being told is both experienced as reality and conveyed with a tone of conviction and “sincerity” (albeit often bombastically so) such that the listener is forced into the position of taking the significant risk of questioning the sanity a powerful, apparently self-assured person; or adopting the safer, more passive role of relinquishing their own cognitively analytic processes and deferring to the intoxicating, intense and grandiose thought processes of the narcissistic. Thus, the interpersonal interaction commonly referred to as “gaslighting” in fact represents the projection onto the public of the powerful, illogical, and timeless fantastical world of lies in which narcissist (emotionally) lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 30, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2017 I feel like he's genuinely aiming to be a fascist dictator. The second amendment was designed to enable people stop nonsense like this wasn't it? If only the US public had been so tolerant of JFK and John Lennon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Nope Quote Trump hits out at UK PM Theresa May after far-right video tweets Donald Trump has told Prime Minister Theresa May to focus on "terrorism" in the UK after she criticised his sharing of far-right videos. "Don't focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom," Mr Trump tweeted. The US president had earlier retweeted three inflammatory videos posted online by a British far-right group. Mrs May's spokesman said it was "wrong for the president to have done this". The US and the UK are close allies and often described as having a "special relationship". Theresa May was the first foreign leader to visit the Trump White House. The speaker of the House of Commons has granted a request for an urgent question on the matter from Labour MP Stephen Doughty. MPs have been reacting to the tweet, with Work and Pensions Secretary David Gauke backing Mrs May and calling Britain First a "ghastly, obnoxious organisation". But while Education Secretary Justine Greening said she disagreed with Mr Trump's actions, they should not be allowed to damage the special relationship between the two countries. The videos shared by Mr Trump, who has more than 40 million followers, were initially posted by Jayda Fransen, the deputy leader of Britain First, a group founded by former members of the far-right British National Party (BNP). Ms Fransen, 31, has been charged in the UK with using "threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour" over speeches she made at a rally in Belfast. Several leading UK politicians have criticised the president for retweeting her posts, as has the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, who said it was "deeply disturbing" that Mr Trump had "chosen to amplify the voice of far-right extremists". Trump wrong to share far-right videos - UK PM Anti-Muslim retweet fits a pattern What the videos Trump shared actually show And it has led to renewed calls for Mr Trump's planned state visit to the UK to be cancelled, although Downing Street said on Wednesday that the invitation still stood. London Mayor Sadiq Khan, who has previously called for the "ill-judged" trip to be cancelled, said: "It beggars belief that the president of our closest ally doesn't see that his support of this extremist group actively undermines the values of tolerance and diversity that makes Britain so great. "After this latest incident, it is increasingly clear that any official visit at all from President Trump to Britain would not be welcomed." In hitting out at Mrs May, Mr Trump first tagged the wrong Twitter account, sending his statement to a different user with just six followers. He then deleted the tweet and posted it again, this time directing the message to the UK PM's official account. After already condemning Mr Trump's actions on Wednesday, Brendan Cox - whose wife, MP Jo Cox, was murdered by a right-wing extremist who shouted "Britain first" before committing the act - told the US president to focus on problems in his own country. You have a mass shooting every single day in your country, your murder rate is many times that of the UK, your healthcare system is a disgrace, you can’t pass anything through a congress that you control. I would focus on that. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/936037588372283392 … TV presenter and journalist Piers Morgan, who has supported Mr Trump in the past, said the president "owes our prime minister an apology, not a lecture" after he "publicly endorsed the most extreme bunch of Islamophobe fascists in Britain". But American conservative commentator Ann Coulter - who is one of the 45 people followed on Twitter by Mr Trump and retweeted the videos first - defended her president's words to Mrs May, saying he had "only given as good as he gets". Media captionAnn Coulter defends the US president on Today after he hit out at Theresa May over far-right tweets An unnecessary controversy By Anthony Zurcher, North America reporter It's clear at this point that Donald Trump won't let a perceived slight or criticism go unanswered - even if it's from a supposed friend. Even if it's from the leader of the president's closest international ally. So shock isn't exactly the right word to describe the reaction to Mr Trump's initially botched attempt to tell Theresa May to, in effect, mind her own business. This is just another example of the US president's self-described "modern-day presidential" use of social media, where Twitter is a cudgel for score-settling no matter the diplomatic cost. When Mr Trump assumed the presidency, one of the first foreign dignitaries he received was Mrs May, and it appeared they formed a quick bond - briefly holding hands as they walked past the White House Rose Garden. Those bonds will now be tested in a spat over a few morning retweets of inflammatory videos. It's a wholly unnecessary controversy, but the international consequences could be all too real. What did Trump retweet? The first video purportedly shows a "Muslim migrant" attacking a young Dutch man on crutches. However, the claim in this tweet appears to have little substance. A spokesperson from the Dutch Public Prosecution Service told the BBC that the person arrested for the attack "was born and raised in the Netherlands" and was not a migrant. This video was uploaded to YouTube in 2013. The man in the clip says: "No-one but Allah will be worshipped in the land of the Levant," which could place him in Syria. The third video originates from the riots that took place in Egypt in 2013, and shows a man being pushed from the top of a building in Alexandria. In 2015, those involved in the the incident were prosecuted, and one man was executed. Media captionBrendan Cox, the husband of murdered UK MP Jo Cox, said Mr Trump was "legitimising hatred" White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said on Wednesday that Mrs May and other world leaders knew that "these are real threats that we have to talk about". "Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," she said. What other reaction has there been? Mr Trump's actions on Wednesday were criticised by both Democrats and Republicans. Republican Senator John McCain said he was "surprised" at the president's tweets. Meanwhile, Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah said that Mrs May was "one of the great world leaders", adding that he had "incredible love and respect for her". “PM @theresa_may is one of the great world leaders, I have incredible love and respect for her and for the way she leads the United Kingdom, especially in the face of turbulence.” -OGH Khizr Khan, the father of US soldier Humayun Khan who was killed in the Iraq war, told Today: "[Mr Trump] holds the hatred. He is an actor, he acts and fabricates these facts to exploit people, innocent people, that fall victim to his bigotry and he sees the benefit. "We all need to unite ourselves, all decent people of the world, against the menace of terrorism." In the UK, many politicians voiced their concerns about the videos that were shared. Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said the president had "endorsed the views of a vile, hate-filled racist organisation". And Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson tweeted that Britain First had "no place" in British society. Opposition MPs were even stronger in the criticism, with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn describing the retweets as "abhorrent" and "dangerous". Speaking in the Commons, Labour MP David Lammy accused Mr Trump of "promoting a fascist, racist, extremist hate group". Not a fan of May but trumps out of order here, i will be very surprised if he lasts the full period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 30, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2017 There's got to be a quiet loner in the US with a decent scope who doesn't like him surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 30, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Chindie said: There's got to be a quiet loner in the US with a decent scope who doesn't like him surely? Worst thing that could happen - perfect excuse for a reactionary clampdown. An idea that I'm sure has occurred to the alt-right. If there's going to be a shooter, that's where they'll come from. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 30, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Chindie said: There's got to be a quiet loner in the US with a decent scope who doesn't like him surely? They tend to come from his side of the fence though, not many yoghurt knitters go full on nut job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 30, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 30, 2017 Yeah, they'd likely be a fan anyway and the last thing we need is him being a martyr. Jail please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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