il_serpente Posted November 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2016 I agree with a lot in the first part of that video, but he loses me when he blames the left for not engaging in discussion. I actually find that it's a lot of the right that has historically tended to avoid discussion here in the U.S. It used to be they could call a liberal or progressive a communist or socialist and consider the argument won, then after Reagan's "conservative revolution", it was enough just to accuse them of being liberal, as if that automatically disqualified them. Condoning terrorism, aiding the terrorists, anti-business, job-killer, soft on crime, etc.: all variants of the game of shutting down the left with labels over the years when they opposed Bush/Cheney policies or supported Obama policies, a technique further encouraged by the rise of talk radio and Fox News. Facts and critical thinking are less important than reinforcing opinions they're already inclined to hold, with no concern over the fact that their followers have been shown to be the most ill-informed group of media consumers by a large margin. It wasn't really "the left" that was trying to win by calling Trump and his supporters racists, xenophobes, etc. It included a lot of people on the left, to be sure, because a. even those who didn't like Hillary recognized that Trump is far worse and needed to be defeated; b. it was largely true, at least of him and his most fanatical supporters; and c. Hillary didn't provide a lot of ammunition for convincing people to vote for her other than to point out how despicable he is and how frightening a Trump presidency would be. I don't necessarily think Trump really is a racist or xenophobe or is certain to pursue policies that are, but he has courted those deplorables and told them it's ok to hold those views and act on them. Now that he's won (in the Electoral College, anyway), even though the victory was in reality provided by people who aren't racist xenophobes and were just willing to look past all that as rhetoric because they felt a need for change, the most miserable of his supporters are further emboldened and feel validated. And it turns out there are a lot more of these deplorables than even the most cynical of us would have imagined. Hate crimes are skyrocketing, and it's not leftists attacking old, white, working class men. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 8 hours ago, Brumerican said: It's humanity's problem and I'm a humanist . That guy over there is going to butcher the planet which we all rely upon, with no regards to how it affects anywhere else . As far as I am concerned he is most definitely "Our problem" . You know that system better than most Brit's, he has limited power to do good or bad. If the Democrats get it together he'll be out in four years and whatever he's done that's bad can be reversed anyway. I just don't think it's the massive deal people are making it out to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Things are much of the same here. Of course time will tell. And then the I told you so's will come out from one side or the other. But life is going on rather the same as it was before. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 I'm starting a third party that will leave the Greens and Libertarians in the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 2 hours ago, maqroll said: I'm starting a third party that will leave the Greens and Libertarians in the dust. Awesome. I suggest a cross between a hipppy commune and Sparta with Mexicans playing the Helots. Bring balance to the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 3 hours ago, Awol said: You know that system better than most Brit's, he has limited power to do good or bad. If the Democrats get it together he'll be out in four years and whatever he's done that's bad can be reversed anyway. I just don't think it's the massive deal people are making it out to be. I'm not so sure we shouldn't be worried. Trump is on record saying climate change is a hoax and has also given the EPA transition job to another climate change denier. Just think about that for a moment . A climate change denier will be in charge of the environment . Dude, that is bloody terrifying . One of the world's largest polluters is about to crank their fossil fuel consumption up to 11 and that is a genuine danger to us all . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) Myron Ebell , or as our descendants will call him , the flood-bringer ! He works for a think tank FUNDED BY THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY !!! He now controls who will work for the EPA under Trump. It is insane . Edited November 16, 2016 by Brumerican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2016 4 hours ago, Awol said: You know that system better than most Brit's, he has limited power to do good or bad. If the Democrats get it together he'll be out in four years and whatever he's done that's bad can be reversed anyway. I just don't think it's the massive deal people are making it out to be. I agree but I think it's a little too easy to say whatever he does can be reversed. How does that work in the Middle East with foreign policy for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 21 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I agree but I think it's a little too easy to say whatever he does can be reversed. How does that work in the Middle East with foreign policy for example? Unless he starts throwing nukes around then it won't make much difference, the place is buggered either way. I cant really argue with Brumerican's last few posts though, the climate stuff is obviously bad news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2016 8 minutes ago, Awol said: Unless he starts throwing nukes around then it won't make much difference, the place is buggered either way. I cant really argue with Brumerican's last few posts though, the climate stuff is obviously bad news. You wouldn't be saying that if you still lived here it's well parky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: You wouldn't be saying that if you still lived here it's well parky! Too right I had to have my heating on in July this year it was so cold, raise the global temperature a few degrees and that won't be the case , think how much coal that will save Edited November 16, 2016 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted November 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 16, 2016 Repealing Obamacare and shrinking Medicare and Medicaid can't easily be undone, either. We appear to be about to leave the group of most developed nations where health care is within reach of most who need it and return to having the best health care money can buy for the well to do and the worst of any developed nation for the working poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Too right I had to have my heating on in July this year it was so cold, raise the global temperature a few degrees and that won't be the case , think how much coal that will save You Tory's are always thinking of ways to save those poor miners work 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: You wouldn't be saying that if you still lived here it's well parky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Going to be 15 degrees in London today. In **** November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2016 Just now, Brumerican said: Only difference is he means it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2016 Just now, omariqy said: Going to be 15 degrees in London today. In **** November. Oh typical.... it's not all about London you know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Just now, TrentVilla said: Only difference is he means it! Oh I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 16 hours ago, tonyh29 said: We have a statue of a known terrorist outside the houses of Parliament and we even have a few inside it these days ( though of course they boycott it rather than actually take their seats ) if we can over look that , then I think we can over look someone that may like a quick grope and brag about it to his mates I saw him grope that woman in New York but overall I thought Crocodile Dundee was a charming character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 10 hours ago, darrenm said: Perhaps I'm misunderstanding then because it really does read like that. You're talking about trump in the US politics thread and brexit is also being discussed and you said "Until those of the left start to engage and to debate with those of a different view point then they will continue to think they are champions of the people while not actually having a clue what said people are thinking, they are not a 'basket of deplorables' for ffs" How isn't that blaming the left for brexit or trump? @TrentVilla I wouldn't mind this being clarified, I think I must be missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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