Stevo985 Posted August 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2015 He probably should have scored. I don't see how that means he contributes nothing though? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2015 I also agree that Veretout could be the future of that position. The bad news for Westwood haters is that, judging by Tuesday's game, Veretout plays the position in a very similar way to Westwood. Chances are those that don't appreciate Westwood won't appreciate Veretout Not so sure that will be true. Looking at stats from last season, Veretout scored 7 goals to westwoods 0, got 6 assists to Westwoods 1 and averages more dribbles and more shots per game than Westwood. I think Veretout has the potential to be a much more productive attacking player in that more advanced midfield role. On Tuesday he played differently because he was the holding midfield player in a very attack minded team, I think he will be much different playing where Westwood played yesterday. If he can produce those sorts of stats for us then I'd be thrilled. And I think Veretout looks decent so can foresee a scenario where he takes over Westwood's position. I was just commenting on the style of play. Veretout was very much playing the way Westwood does. Dropping deep, taking the ball off the defence and feeding the more attacking players. Few big tackles or shots, more keeping the play turning over. Perhaps he will have more penetration than Westwood, hard to tell, I'm really only judging him on one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Gana destroys/intercepts, Veretout scores/creates chances, Westwood... passes? I think Sherwood is trying to get him to add an extra dimension to his game and get him to push forward, hence playing him with Sanchez and giving him some freedom from defensive responsibilities. The problem is, we already seem to have a player in Veretout that can do that better... so I think his time may be limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 How do we know Veretout can do that better? He hasn't shown it for us thus far. Those are just assumptions. Besides, even by reducing Westwood's game to 'just passing' you still underrate how important this ability is to our game and starting off our attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 He's shown it in his career though, just in a different league. What else does Westwood do besides pass though? I'm talking about your basic skills here - he's not good at tackling, he doesn't read the game that well for interceptions, his set pieces are poor and his shooting isn't that great. Starting off attacks really isn't that outstanding a feature - he can pick a pass but then so can lots of players. He really isn't that special a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2015 Out of interest how many games did you see him play in French football? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 He's shown it in his career though, just in a different league. What else does Westwood do besides pass though? I'm talking about your basic skills here - he's not good at tackling, he doesn't read the game that well for interceptions, his set pieces are poor and his shooting isn't that great. Starting off attacks really isn't that outstanding a feature - he can pick a pass but then so can lots of players. He really isn't that special a player. These are just not true though are they? Is there a generic rap sheet of Westwood criticisms that people read off of without even fact checking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 He's shown it in his career though, just in a different league. What else does Westwood do besides pass though? I'm talking about your basic skills here - he's not good at tackling, he doesn't read the game that well for interceptions, his set pieces are poor and his shooting isn't that great. Starting off attacks really isn't that outstanding a feature - he can pick a pass but then so can lots of players. He really isn't that special a player. These are just not true though are they? Is there a generic rap sheet of Westwood criticisms that people read off of without even fact checking? If you want to talk about fact checking, look at goals scored and the amount of interceptions he's made. Not that many in either column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Out of interest how many games did you see him play in French football? None but I imagine our scouts did. What difference does me watching the game make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) He's shown it in his career though, just in a different league. What else does Westwood do besides pass though? I'm talking about your basic skills here - he's not good at tackling, he doesn't read the game that well for interceptions, his set pieces are poor and his shooting isn't that great. Starting off attacks really isn't that outstanding a feature - he can pick a pass but then so can lots of players. He really isn't that special a player. These are just not true though are they? Is there a generic rap sheet of Westwood criticisms that people read off of without even fact checking? If you want to talk about fact checking, look at goals scored and the amount of interceptions he's made. Not that many in either column. Just to expand this slightly: Westwood has made an average of 1.7 interceptions for us in the premier league, per game - which isn't that bad, admittedly. He has scored 3 goals in the league in 96 appearances. Edited August 31, 2015 by lexicon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Veretout and Westwood play in different positions. When Veretout did well last year he was actually playing behind the striker, even when not playing there he's a lot more of an attacking player, positionally, than Westwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 He's shown it in his career though, just in a different league. What else does Westwood do besides pass though? I'm talking about your basic skills here - he's not good at tackling, he doesn't read the game that well for interceptions, his set pieces are poor and his shooting isn't that great. Starting off attacks really isn't that outstanding a feature - he can pick a pass but then so can lots of players. He really isn't that special a player. These are just not true though are they? Is there a generic rap sheet of Westwood criticisms that people read off of without even fact checking? If you want to talk about fact checking, look at goals scored and the amount of interceptions he's made. Not that many in either column. Implying that either goal scoring or interceptions are a requirement of him. Reading of the game is his main attribute along with his passing, whereas his shooting technique is very good despite not having much of a goal return (Saturday's chance springs to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Veretout and Westwood play in different positions. When Veretout did well last year he was actually playing behind the striker, even when not playing there he's a lot more of an attacking player, positionally, than Westwood. Did you actually see him play though? Apparently that's very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Implying that either goal scoring or interceptions are a requirement of him. Reading of the game is his main attribute along with his passing, whereas his shooting technique is very good despite not having much of a goal return (Saturday's chance springs to mind). He has to do more than he does, that's the point - with either defensive or attacking contributions and he doesn't really tick either of those boxes at the moment. As I said earlier, I think Sherwood's trying to get him to be more attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2015 Out of interest how many games did you see him play in French football? None but I imagine our scouts did. What difference does me watching the game make? Because you stated that Vertout can do certain things better than Westwood. When asked how you know this you sited his performances in France which you've just admitted you didn't see. It massively undermines your original point. He might be better than Westwood at those things but that very much remains to be seen. Veretout and Westwood play in different positions. When Veretout did well last year he was actually playing behind the striker, even when not playing there he's a lot more of an attacking player, positionally, than Westwood. Did you actually see him play though? Apparently that's very important. It is rather when you are making statements on a players ability, it does help if you've seen them play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 No, it doesn't undermine my point all - I don't need to actually see him score or assist a goal to know that he scored or assisted. The stats speak for themselves here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 not really that bothered about him only having scored 3 goals in 96. All about player roles and his role wasnt to get in the final third (apart from few games this season) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2015 Of course it does but I understand why you don't agree. I personally would seriously question the validity of assessing a player based on a comparison of stats in two completely different leagues. On that basis Max Gradel is a better goal scorer than Benteke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The midfield looks a lot more effectual with Sanchez as a CDM and Gana box to box, meaning that the remaining guy needs to offer something in attack IMO. Westwood could grow into that role but I think Veretout is a better bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Of course it does but I understand why you don't agree. I personally would seriously question the validity of assessing a player based on a comparison of stats in two completely different leagues. On that basis Max Gradel is a better goal scorer than Benteke! I wouldn't say that Ligue 1 is completely different to the prem though, in fact as far as European leagues go it's pretty close. With regards to your other point, you'd say that Gradel had a more prolific season than Benteke last season but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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