DCJonah Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. Yes, there's little point just relying on a specific stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So if you create a chance and that person doesn't score it's the creators fault? Westwood is the only decent passer we have at the minute. People love Delph yet he doesn't create much. I think if Westwood took people on instead of passing it he'd get more recognition! He has to up his game this year but if as a passing midfielder you have zero movement up front you'll never look brilliant. Westwood hasn't got the ability to take people on like delph. I know and Delph hasn't got his passing ability that's the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So if you create a chance and that person doesn't score it's the creators fault? So can you point out these 50-60 (can't renember the figure given ) chances created by him that were just squandered by other players then? I think rather than pointing them out individually we need to consider what a chance might be, and maybe this is just my of thinking about it. A pass is made leaving us 3vs3, or 2vs2, most teams would feel confident that a shot will be created yet at Villa we often found ourselves with with Gabby/striker/Weimann miscontrolling the ball, stopping while thinking about the next move or crossing/passing to the player who never made the run but should have. Now the person who created the 3 vs 3, let's say for threads sake Westwood, should he think, hmmm, these guys ahead are terrible I'll find another man/run with it myself, or should he say my role is to create a chance for them to score? Hopefully chance; so if he plays the pass and the 3 muck it up who did their job and who didn't? Players with non-game winning roles are rarely appreciated unless they are world greats, or play in a team who is always winning, I'm not using this as a way to defend Westwood but I am saying that chance creation has to be part of more than just the last or penultimate pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. If he's such a poor set-piece taker, why is he finding his target and creating chances? Are you being serious? He finds his target because Benteke is usually in the box. He rarely scores because the best he can manage is a tame header at goal because of Westwood's tendency to float them in. If you consider those "chances" then we obviously differ on definition. I think rather than pointing them out individually we need to consider what a chance might be, and maybe this is just my of thinking about it. A pass is made leaving us 3vs3, or 2vs2, most teams would feel confident that a shot will be created yet at Villa we often found ourselves with with Gabby/striker/Weimann miscontrolling the ball, stopping while thinking about the next move or crossing/passing to the player who never made the run but should have. Now the person who created the 3 vs 3, let's say for threads sake Westwood, should he think, hmmm, these guys ahead are terrible I'll find another man/run with it myself, or should he say my role is to create a chance for them to score? Hopefully chance; so if he plays the pass and the 3 muck it up who did their job and who didn't? Players with non-game winning roles are rarely appreciated unless they are world greats, or play in a team who is always winning, I'm not using this as a way to defend Westwood but I am saying that chance creation has to be part of more than just the last or penultimate pass. As already said, the definition of a chance that has been used in the 'chances created' stat is the pass directly leading to an effort on goal. Not two vs. twos etc. Edited August 11, 2014 by Isa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So if you create a chance and that person doesn't score it's the creators fault? Westwood is the only decent passer we have at the minute. People love Delph yet he doesn't create much. I think if Westwood took people on instead of passing it he'd get more recognition! He has to up his game this year but if as a passing midfielder you have zero movement up front you'll never look brilliant. Westwood hasn't got the ability to take people on like delph. I know and Delph hasn't got his passing ability that's the point Delph has lots of qualities thats why people rate him. Westwood trying to take people on wouldn't make people rate him more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. If he's such a poor set-piece taker, why is he finding his target and creating chances? Are you being serious? He finds his target because Benteke is usually in the box. He rarely scores because the best he can manage is a tame header at goal because of Westwood's tendency to float them in. If you consider those "chances" then we obviously differ on definition. I'll definitely give you that, especially the floating outswinger....eughh, horrible unless that player is pinpoint and you have two massive guys running in and creating havoc in the box. Our corners have been painful for a while....yet they're still better than our throw-ins. Edited August 11, 2014 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 We were a team that clearly struggled to create and take chances last season. We looked poor going forward in plenty of games. Westwood is not someone who created lots of clear cut great chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. If he's such a poor set-piece taker, why is he finding his target and creating chances? He has been under orders to float balls in for a season and half. He showed he can whip in a great ball when we changed our approach to corners. He showed clear signs of improvement last season. He scored 3 great goals compared to none the season before and his stat of being second to Gerard in chances created is great for a player playing for us considering the season we had last year. Also to belittle the stat is silly as it applies to all players regardless of how it is calculated so to score so high is a good achievment. He would of had even more if Benteke and Kozak were fit for the full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I'll definitely give you that, especially the floating outswinger....eughh, horrible unless that player is pinpoint and you have two massive guys running in and creating havoc in the box. Our corners have been painful for a while....yet they're still better than our throw-ins. To be fair to him, it was suggested by Hairyhands that he takes set-pieces like that under instruction which might be true but it doesn't change the fact that they are utterly ineffective. Edited August 11, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. If he's such a poor set-piece taker, why is he finding his target and creating chances? Are you being serious? He finds his target because Benteke is usually in the box. He rarely scores because the best he can manage is a tame header at goal because of Westwood's tendency to float them in. If you consider those "chances" then we obviously differ on definition. I'll definitely give you that, especially the floating outswinger....eughh, horrible unless that player is pinpoint and you have two massive guys running in and creating havoc in the box. Our corners have been painful for a while....yet they're still better than our throw-ins. I can never understand why Westwood takes all our set pieces? We should at least let Delph take the ones suited to a left footer? Saying that Bacuna would be better for the right footers too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'll definitely give you that, especially the floating outswinger....eughh, horrible unless that player is pinpoint and you have two massive guys running in and creating havoc in the box. Our corners have been painful for a while....yet they're still better than our throw-ins. To be fair to him, it was suggested by Hairyhands it takes set-pieces like that under instruction which might be true but it doesn't change the fact that they are utterly ineffective. And we're back to my favourite topic....Lambert is either a manager who is still learning (at Wenger like pace...oh my he finally bought some good players!!!) or he's not really a very good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 And we're back to my favourite topic....Lambert is either a manager who is still learning (at Wenger like pace...oh my he finally bought some good players!!!) or he's not really a very good manager. The latter...in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Sky Sports. Sorry, as in, "could you link to the source please". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I thought HH suggested Benteke asked for corners to be taken like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The touch and then the strike are sublime : 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. If he's such a poor set-piece taker, why is he finding his target and creating chances? Are you being serious? He finds his target because Benteke is usually in the box. He rarely scores because the best he can manage is a tame header at goal because of Westwood's tendency to float them in. If you consider those "chances" then we obviously differ on definition. I'll definitely give you that, especially the floating outswinger....eughh, horrible unless that player is pinpoint and you have two massive guys running in and creating havoc in the box. Our corners have been painful for a while....yet they're still better than our throw-ins. I can never understand why Westwood takes all our set pieces? We should at least let Delph take the ones suited to a left footer? Saying that Bacuna would be better for the right footers too? I know, am I wrong in remembering Albrighton taking some last year and we looked a little more dangerous? What gets really annoying is when we have 3 corners that don't work and we either don't change the taker/or vary the ball going in, especially true of outswinging corners. You'd think someone on the field/dugout would have the presence of mind to suggest a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 And we're back to my favourite topic....Lambert is either a manager who is still learning (at Wenger like pace...oh my he finally bought some good players!!!) or he's not really a very good manager. The latter...in my humble opinion. It has been a ride with little surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Discussion on Lambert's merits as a manager in the Westwood thread, definitely didn't see that one coming. Looks like nothing's changed ahead of the new season, sigh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Discussion on Lambert's merits as a manager in the Westwood thread, definitely didn't see that one coming. Looks like nothing's changed ahead of the new season, sigh. No, why would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 All these chances created yet zero assists from open play. Not sure why people keep rolling that stat out. Someone on here clarified that the statistical definition of a chance was just a pass leading to any attempt on goal no matter how far out or off target. His figure was clearly bumped up by the fact that he took all of our set-pieces and he is a poor set-piece taker at that. If he's such a poor set-piece taker, why is he finding his target and creating chances? Are you being serious? He finds his target because Benteke is usually in the box. He rarely scores because the best he can manage is a tame header at goal because of Westwood's tendency to float them in. If you consider those "chances" then we obviously differ on definition. You mean the ones that Benteke wanted to be like that? Oh, ok then. Westwood at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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