PB Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hence my references to Benteke in his first set of games for us and I did not make that assumption on just one misplaced pass or header. It was his overal performance in those games I was commenting on which was poor. He has since then shoved those comments down throats of the doubters including myself. I dont know what you were watching then, because quite alot of people could see in those early games that the lad had massive talent. Im not only saying that because I was one of them and said so repeatedly and loudly in the face of the frankly bizarre criticism he was getting. To be so over the top dismissive of a player who quite clearly had a hell of alot about him hints at a pretty deep and dark cynicism that does you no favours People need to relax, be patient, and you know what? Be bloody optimistic. We are supposed to be fanatical supporters of our football team. Im not saying to blindly follow, me of all people could not preach that without massive hypocrisy, but when things are clearly on an upcurve, enjoy it, accept it will take time. Dont be so hasty to paint yourself into a stupid corner you then feel the need to defend.to such ridiculous extents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 A few pages back there was a 40 point Target suggestion, I dont think 40 will be the total, if reading and qpr are to hit 40 they have to win every other game they play, and can't see southampton getting 40 points. Id say 36 will be just enough. Agreed but then if we don't hit 40 points we would still have had a poor season.. It should be the minimum expectation every season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 No it wasn't. You said he was another Balaban and a waste of money you didn't say he was playing badly because he was out of form. Everyone knows what you said, I find it a little sad that you can't simply hold your hands up to being wrong to judging a player far too early and getting it totally wrong. Instead you are trying to claim you were talking about form which frankly nobody is buying. What is quite sad here is when someone has clearly stated he has been wrong, actually stating it clearly and precisely in posts over several days, then to be continually accused of not admitting to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 19, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2012 When (if) Lambert is a success, will you say you were only commenting on his form too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 How about we move on, eh lads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I dont know what you were watching then, because quite alot of people could see in those early games that the lad had massive talent. Im not only saying that because I was one of them and said so repeatedly and loudly in the face of the frankly bizarre criticism he was getting. To be so over the top dismissive of a player who quite clearly had a hell of alot about him hints at a pretty deep and dark cynicism that does you no favours Dont be so hasty to paint yourself into a stupid corner you then feel the need to defend.to such ridiculous extents So you agree then that there was criticism of his performances whether you agreed with it or not? That's fair enough. Yes I was one of those who was dismissive of him and I like other posters was too premature and wrong concerning my judgement of him. However where we disagree is probably in the area of his earlier performances which in my opinion were poor so I didn't feel I was putting myself in any 'stupid corner.' I am also not defending the issue of right or wrong about him because I was wrong. What I am defending however is why I made such a harsh judgement on the player in the first place and posters continually accusing me of not admitting to being wrong when I have stated as such several times and again in this post. I therefore don't think it's ridiculous at all to defend those positions and I will continue to do so if prompted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Yes without the benefit of hignsight I was totally wrong about him but no-one could have foreseen the Jekyll and Hyde transformation of the player, apart from Lambert who also must be surprised at how well Benteke is playing. Well, you, like many of us, could have just trusted the Managers judgement - a Manager who will no doubt argue that far from being suprised paid 7 million based on a bit more than the 3 games you watched. This is the point every time with you - far too premature and knee jerk in all your criticisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Well, you, like many of us, could have just trusted the Managers judgement - a Manager who will no doubt argue that far from being suprised paid 7 million based on a bit more than the 3 games you watched. This is the point every time with you - far too premature and knee jerk in all your criticisms. Yes I probably could have trusted the manager's judgement but found it difficult to do that where he had us in the table and having the worst start ever to a Premiership campaign. The knee jerk reaction on Benteke has been done to death unless you are also referring to something else and if so please enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 19, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 19, 2012 Right enough of this please folks, I think it is extremely obvious that Morpheus got it totally wrong about Benteke time to move on and get this back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It will be tight but I think we will finish where we are now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Good point. I'm hoping the Liverpool game marks a new dawn and isn't just a flash in the pan (like Chelsea away last year). A point at Chelsea would be solid, a win would be unbelievable. To me, irrespective of the result against Chelsea thus weekend, the Liverpool result can not be seen as flash in the pan due to our excellent performances against Man Utd, Norwich and a great win up at Sunderland. Chelsea away last year was a flash in the pan as we managed to fluke a win with a manager who set us up to draw. We have shown under PL that we are a hungry, attacking team who, on our day can cause teams plenty of trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 To be honest "the other guy" got a few wins early doors, we had the freak Chelsea win then that gung ho Keane inspired win at wolves and that wa about it. Beyond Chelsea this weekend, we need to be looking at hosting spurs and Wigan over 3 days and coming out with a minimum of 4 points. The league cup is a lovely diversion, but reality is the PL is everything to this clubs future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 well i cant see us beating chelsea in both league and cup (if we get to the final) so its one or the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Can't see us getting anything Sunday, spurs a draw would be ok but we MUST beat Wigan or we'll be floundering near the drop zone again. If somehow we could say get a point and two wins, you're then very much looking at a top half finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I have a feeling we can sneak a win against Spurs or Chelsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 A few pages back there was a 40 point Target suggestion, I dont think 40 will be the total, if reading and qpr are to hit 40 they have to win every other game they play, and can't see southampton getting 40 points. Id say 36 will be just enough. Think it would be a brave manager who targeted 36 points as survival level. The second half of the season always throws up surprise runs of form. 40 points it is for me, so 22 points from 21 games. Shouldn't be too demanding a target TBF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes I probably could have trusted the manager's judgement but found it difficult to do that where he had us in the table and having the worst start ever to a Premiership campaign. The knee jerk reaction on Benteke has been done to death unless you are also referring to something else and if so please enlighten me? Indeed I am - as you yourself refer to above - namely that you also couldn't trust the Manager based on a handful of games either. The point is does it not occur to you that much of your overall criticism of Villa this season is too premature, it is why so much of the world of football is chaotic, too many fans who simply don't possess any patience, any sense of perspective. Whether it is particular players, our League position, or PL as Manager, you would be better having some patience. If the whole fanbase had been like you we would be on anothe Manager by now - it is just crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 So you agree then that there was criticism of his performances whether you agreed with it or not? That's fair enough. Yes I was one of those who was dismissive of him and I like other posters was too premature and wrong concerning my judgement of him. However where we disagree is probably in the area of his earlier performances which in my opinion were poor so I didn't feel I was putting myself in any 'stupid corner.' I am also not defending the issue of right or wrong about him because I was wrong. What I am defending however is why I made such a harsh judgement on the player in the first place and posters continually accusing me of not admitting to being wrong when I have stated as such several times and again in this post. I therefore don't think it's ridiculous at all to defend those positions and I will continue to do so if prompted. You come across as a troll to be honest. You could start an argument in an empty house by the looks of it. Most of your 'judgements' are knee-jerk and premature and you also have the ability to labour arguments and dwell on bad things even during periods where our form is good. This is why you find yourself having to constantly defend your 'positions'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwpzxjor1 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Think it would be a brave manager who targeted 36 points as survival level. The second half of the season always throws up surprise runs of form. 40 points it is for me, so 22 points from 21 games. Shouldn't be too demanding a target TBF. Exactly, and it's not just surprise form, it's that teams around them start to lose motivation and dedication as they get stuck to midtable with nothing to play for and no chance of going down. Wigan get out of it every year by being psyched up and destroying teams who ordinarily should be beating them. I agree that 40 points will be enough to stay up, but to target a lower amount is suicide. I also think there will be 2 bottom clubs, and then a big scrap for the third spot which could raise the amount of points needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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