Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 You keep going on and on about the defence, apart from Lowton, the defence has been changed through the season on shape, injuries. We have not had a constant back four, we are not City or Man United where you can replace say Vlaar with Smalling. We've also had Dunne out, we have had to rely on kids. The defence was inexperienced, however recently we have tightened up due to having Vlaar back in and a better support in midfield to assist the defence. As BOF says its not a case of black or white, we have been poor defensively for a while and thats even with the likes of Collins, Dunne and Warnock in the team. So you've got no problems with our defence then? Would you be happy if Lambert made no improvements in the summer? If we'd had a fairly bad year for conceding goals I'd accept some of the excuses made. When you break the clubs premiership record while the goal keeper is a player of the year contender then IMO there's more to it than the excuses given here. Where have I said I have no problems with the defence? I stated there are reasons why the defence has struggled this year as its not a simple case of there rubbish. We have not had a consistent back four. Lambert will make improvements in the summer so its a stupid question. I don't understand your third question. We've also broken the clubs Premiership record of having the youngest side, so whats your point which was due to our experienced players being injured!!! Was Vlaar or Dunne fit for the Chelsea, Spurs or Wigan games where we conceded 15 in 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 The discussion about wether or not Lambert was backed properly this season has been done to death, if you want to argue that he was. Be my guest, I'm not sure many will agree with you. And again your point about the defence I've acknowledged in previous posts. Yes we've had a freak result and Vlaar was injured for awhile. Overall I still don't think our defence has been good enough. Do you? the other three with a ridiculous young and inexperienced defence Find this a bit hypocritical really. You use the fact the defence was young and inexperienced as an excuse but who signed 2 young and inexperienced players to add to our defence? You use signing these young players as a reason to praise lambert but also then use it as an excuse for a poor defence at times. Surely you can't have it both ways. Yeah, I forgot to mention what someone before me had already mentioned, that 4 of the 5 defenders we used then wasn't Lamberts signings and that we had a few injuries in the defence, like Vlaar. An experienced defender, our captain and signed by Lambert. He was backed, but could've been backed more. But you're using the backing to criticise Lerner, and then you criticise Lambert for not buying better players. You don't see the contradiction there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. So much better we finished 16th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. No, but our starting line ups were ultra defensive playing 5 defenders and two defensive midfielders at the same time. We didn't let as many goals in, but we almost never looked likely to score either. Didn't you complain about AML being too densive minded as most of the rest of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 The discussion about wether or not Lambert was backed properly this season has been done to death, if you want to argue that he was. Be my guest, I'm not sure many will agree with you. And again your point about the defence I've acknowledged in previous posts. Yes we've had a freak result and Vlaar was injured for awhile. Overall I still don't think our defence has been good enough. Do you? the other three with a ridiculous young and inexperienced defence Find this a bit hypocritical really. You use the fact the defence was young and inexperienced as an excuse but who signed 2 young and inexperienced players to add to our defence? You use signing these young players as a reason to praise lambert but also then use it as an excuse for a poor defence at times. Surely you can't have it both ways. If you had to count the amount of clangers and mistakes made I'd say clarke and baker would probably top the list. Neither are lambets signings. I'm not saying lamberts signings haven't made errors but when you think we've had clarke and baker in the middle for a a fair few games, plus herd on occassion how can you blame him for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. So much better we finished 16th. And also played with 10 men behind the ball without any attacking intent what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 You keep going on and on about the defence, apart from Lowton, the defence has been changed through the season on shape, injuries. We have not had a constant back four, we are not City or Man United where you can replace say Vlaar with Smalling. We've also had Dunne out, we have had to rely on kids. The defence was inexperienced, however recently we have tightened up due to having Vlaar back in and a better support in midfield to assist the defence. As BOF says its not a case of black or white, we have been poor defensively for a while and thats even with the likes of Collins, Dunne and Warnock in the team. So you've got no problems with our defence then? Would you be happy if Lambert made no improvements in the summer? If we'd had a fairly bad year for conceding goals I'd accept some of the excuses made. When you break the clubs premiership record while the goal keeper is a player of the year contender then IMO there's more to it than the excuses given here. Where have I said I have no problems with the defence? I stated there are reasons why the defence has struggled this year as its not a simple case of there rubbish. We have not had a consistent back four. Lambert will make improvements in the summer so its a stupid question. I don't understand your third question. We've also broken the clubs Premiership record of having the youngest side, so whats your point which was due to our experienced players being injured!!! Was Vlaar or Dunne fit for the Chelsea, Spurs or Wigan games where we conceded 15 in 3 games. I've agreed there's been other things than they're just rubbish. And for the record I don't think it's a case of their all rubbish. I think we have potential for a good defence but at the moment I think the performance of individual defenders and the defence as a unit have not been up to scratch. Yes we've had injuries but on the whole it hasn't been good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 He was backed, but could've been backed more. But you're using the backing to criticise Lerner, and then you criticise Lambert for not buying better players. You don't see the contradiction there? I've said he was given a very limited budget. I just don't agree that he spent it the best he could. How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. So much better we finished 16th. A league finish isn't just down to a defence is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 The discussion about wether or not Lambert was backed properly this season has been done to death, if you want to argue that he was. Be my guest, I'm not sure many will agree with you. And again your point about the defence I've acknowledged in previous posts. Yes we've had a freak result and Vlaar was injured for awhile. Overall I still don't think our defence has been good enough. Do you? the other three with a ridiculous young and inexperienced defence Find this a bit hypocritical really. You use the fact the defence was young and inexperienced as an excuse but who signed 2 young and inexperienced players to add to our defence? You use signing these young players as a reason to praise lambert but also then use it as an excuse for a poor defence at times. Surely you can't have it both ways. If you had to count the amount of clangers and mistakes made I'd say clarke and baker would probably top the list. Neither are lambets signings. I'm not saying lamberts signings haven't made errors but when you think we've had clarke and baker in the middle for a a fair few games, plus herd on occassion how can you blame him for that? If we'd kept a few clean sheets with those kids in defence I'm sure Lambert would be receiving praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. Wasnt that much better plus It helped we had 10 men behind the ball most games and never showed any creativity. If we had last seasons defence with Lambert in charge would have been just chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. No, but our starting line ups were ultra defensive playing 5 defenders and two defensive midfielders at the same time. We didn't let as many goals in, but we almost never looked likely to score either. Didn't you complain about AML being too densive minded as most of the rest of us? Before the stoke game we had scored the same amount of goals we'd scored last season after 31 games. Our attack has improved lots since HT against Newcastle but before that our attacking threat was worse than a negative defensive Mcleish and our defence was also shit during that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I get a lot of grief for my views but at least I'll give credit where i feel it's due. I've said Benteke is an amazing signing. Westwood is a good player Excellent decision offering Guzan a contract. Credit for getting gabby, Nzogbia and Delph performing better. Credit for weimman's performances this year Credit for recent improvements and formation change. Lowton, Bennet and Sylla all have lots of potential to improve. On the flip side the people I tend to always debate with just have excuses. Poor signings? Well what did you expect for the money he had. Poor defence? Not his fault, injuries and young players Poor results? Club was in a mess what could he do? Relegation battle? Keeping us up would be a fantastic achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. No, but our starting line ups were ultra defensive playing 5 defenders and two defensive midfielders at the same time. We didn't let as many goals in, but we almost never looked likely to score either. Didn't you complain about AML being too densive minded as most of the rest of us? Before the stoke game we had scored the same amount of goals we'd scored last season after 31 games. Our attack has improved lots since HT against Newcastle but before that our attacking threat was worse than a negative defensive Mcleish and our defence was also shit during that period. When you're looking at it, do you really think we were as good going forward last year as we are this year. Did we really have the same threat? Take away the stats and look at it with your own eyes. Did we create as many chances then? Not that we're like Barcelona, but still. Do you think we were as good attacking wise last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. No, but our starting line ups were ultra defensive playing 5 defenders and two defensive midfielders at the same time. We didn't let as many goals in, but we almost never looked likely to score either. Didn't you complain about AML being too densive minded as most of the rest of us? Before the stoke game we had scored the same amount of goals we'd scored last season after 31 games. Our attack has improved lots since HT against Newcastle but before that our attacking threat was worse than a negative defensive Mcleish and our defence was also shit during that period. When you're looking at it, do you really think we were as good going forward last year as we are this year. Did we really have the same threat? Take away the stats and look at it with your own eyes. Did we create as many chances then? Not that we're like Barcelona, but still. Do you think we were as good attacking wise last year? Now we've sorted our formation out. No we're miles better. Before that i certainly didn't think we were much of an attacking threat. At one point we were the lowest scorers in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I get a lot of grief for my views but at least I'll give credit where i feel it's due. I've said Benteke is an amazing signing. Westwood is a good player Excellent decision offering Guzan a contract. Credit for getting gabby, Nzogbia and Delph performing better. Credit for weimman's performances this year Credit for recent improvements and formation change. Lowton, Bennet and Sylla all have lots of potential to improve. On the flip side the people I tend to always debate with just have excuses. Poor signings? Well what did you expect for the money he had. Poor defence? Not his fault, injuries and young players Poor results? Club was in a mess what could he do? Relegation battle? Keeping us up would be a fantastic achievement. I have to ask. Where has someone said that it would be a fantastic achievement to keep us up? For the rest, well, I can only speak for myself, but when someone have a ultra negative view of everything I tend to go the other way. I don't like black and white analyzes. There's so much more to it than that. And what you call excuses I mostly call explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Where has someone said that it would be a fantastic achievement to keep us up? Been said a few times. I believe Richard even called for a knighthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 How good was our defence last season? Much better than this season that's for sure. No, but our starting line ups were ultra defensive playing 5 defenders and two defensive midfielders at the same time. We didn't let as many goals in, but we almost never looked likely to score either. Didn't you complain about AML being too densive minded as most of the rest of us? Before the stoke game we had scored the same amount of goals we'd scored last season after 31 games. Our attack has improved lots since HT against Newcastle but before that our attacking threat was worse than a negative defensive Mcleish and our defence was also shit during that period. When you're looking at it, do you really think we were as good going forward last year as we are this year. Did we really have the same threat? Take away the stats and look at it with your own eyes. Did we create as many chances then? Not that we're like Barcelona, but still. Do you think we were as good attacking wise last year? Now we've sorted our formation out. No we're miles better. Before that i certainly didn't think we were much of an attacking threat. At one point we were the lowest scorers in the league. We missed chances too. And we scored quite a few goals in the lc. But I'll give you that we weren't as much better as we should be considering how many goals we let in comparison. But I still think our defence is better this year. Apart from a few games where even I couldn't bear to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 And what you call excuses I mostly call explanations. Well it seems there's always an explanation that takes away any blame for the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Where has someone said that it would be a fantastic achievement to keep us up? Been said a few times. I believe Richard even called for a knighthood. Well, that I can't agree with. It's not a fantastic achievement by any stretch. He's done very well in the last few months to seemingly have to turned it all around. Before February/March we looked destined for relegation ut now we're looking more likely to survive and maybe even climb up the table. But the state we were in before that was definitely partly Lamberts fault. But I never doubted his abilities. We'll see. But wait, this is the Lowton thread, isn't it? And what you call excuses I mostly call explanations. Well it seems there's always an explanation that takes away any blame for the manager. No, but some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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