Rugeley Villa Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, Chindie said: You'd be surprised. The evidence of a historical 'Jesus' is pretty shoddy, and most of the refusal to combat it seems to come down to people being polite and weighing whether it truly matters if a singular, actual bloke that matches the non-supernatural touchstones of 'his' life actually existed. The likelihood is he's a composite character of various radical preachers, none of whom are individually relevant, and got mashed together after the fact as a foundation of an organically growing radical religious spin off. There’s less historical evidence for famous Roman emperors that we have no trouble in believing. I think some are just scared to admit Jesus was almost certainly real because they open themselves up to the god bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted August 22 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: There’s less historical evidence for famous Roman emperors that we have no trouble in believing. I think some are just scared to admit Jesus was almost certainly real because they open themselves up to the god bit. I'm not opening myself up to god's bits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 22 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 19 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Wether you believe in a god or not historical evidence points to the existence of Jesus No it doesn't. There are a few writings that would indicate that there were any number of millennial cults and wannabe messiahs, of various names, around that time. The stories in the Bible are pretty obviously an edited mishmash of these stories, selected and massaged to suit the agenda of one particular group. Certainly, some of the philosophy attributed to this semi-fictional bloke is fairly progressive for its day (certainly compared to the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament - although the Book of Revelations has a good go at bringing it back). If this character was going around saying basically "Be excellent to each other, dudes", that's laudable (but hardly unique). And it doesn't require a belief in any supernatural sky fairies. My laugh reaction to your post, was more to do with the Turin Shroud story - partly because it's palpably nonsense, but mainly the thought that only in Britain could the 'proof' of a divine miracle be celebrated with tea and cakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 22 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: There’s less historical evidence for famous Roman emperors that we have no trouble in believing. I think some are just scared to admit Jesus was almost certainly real because they open themselves up to the god bit. I'm not sure that's true. It's harder to fake someone who is physically in charge of things, whose direct instructions can move thousands and cause history to shake. Not impossible, and certainly more so the more bureaucracy is built up, but harder than a nebulous character whose entire story is built of stories written second hand (at best) and whose influence is largely as a figure head of a bigger movement. Jesus bears rather significant similarities with King Arthur, but we know Arthur isn't real. I'm a few thousand years, if there's some cataclysm that ruins the record keeping and archiving, there would be about as much evidence Spider-Man exists to a contemporaneous viewer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 14 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: A rainbow snake? That’s just utter nonsense and story telling. The seven day creation isn't? When we can see the mechanics of the creation and destruction of planets and stars through our observation tech? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 22 Administrator Share Posted August 22 29 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Wether you believe in a god or not historical evidence points to the existence of Jesus and his teachings are peaceful . How do you know it’s nonsense if you weren’t there? Peaceful like in Matthew 10:34-36? The gospels were written in (a high form of) Greek, the earliest more than a generation after the events portrayed. They are contradictory. "Mark" in the earliest copies we have, finished the story with an empty tomb, because no-one had made up the physical resurrection at that point. Paul only talked about a vision of Jesus and admits in his writings that the people with him at the time didn't see it. Each gospel described a different Jesus character, even though Matthew and Luke are about 70% word for word copies of Mark (in the Greek). Do you believe WW2 happened? Seeing as you weren't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 9 minutes ago, Chindie said: I'm a few thousand years Are you the Highlander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 22 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, Jon said: Are you the Highlander? If someone wants to unexpectedly cut my head off I'd probably be grateful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted August 22 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 36 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Book of Revelations Revelation. Know thine enemy 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 55 minutes ago, Chindie said: If someone wants to unexpectedly cut my head off I'd probably be grateful. Give it a few more years ….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin79 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: A rainbow snake? That’s just utter nonsense and story telling. That sentence could apply to any religion. I’m not sure why a rainbow snake should be considered anymore nonsensical than any other sky fairy of choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 22 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Give it a few more years ….. Well that's disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcarpet Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: I struggle to see how people cannot get their head around a supernatural power. The afterlife is supernatural and I’m as convinced as I can be that is real. I suppose all will be revealed. Is there just one supernatural power or one for every planet? Do we all go to the same afterlife or do the aliens go to a different one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, bcarpet said: Is there just one supernatural power or one for every planet? Do we all go to the same afterlife or do the aliens go to a different one? And do bacteria get in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted August 22 Author VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted August 22 7 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: And do bacteria get in? No. They stay at small heath. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 The pirate code is actually more of a guide. The same can be said of the bible. Anyone claiming belief in the literal word of the bible would have to state what edition in what language and what version of any story. There are multiple different versions of creation in Genesis. There are multiple books that didn’t make the cut. Use it as more of a guide. Don’t sweat the small print. Don’t be a word removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 I’m very …..very disappointed with the piss taking I really am . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 22 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: I’m very …..very disappointed with the piss taking I really am . I don't think it's really piss taking, more healthy scepticism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 22 Administrator Share Posted August 22 19 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I’m very …..very disappointed with the piss taking I really am . But you've ignored me correcting your claim of "peaceful". Or whether you believe in WW2 because you weren't there. I wasn't piss taking in the slightest, just correcting your misconceptions through Socratic methods. I will always take the piss out of religions, but not the victims of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 I’ve had to go to that London today. Last night I had a really quite impressive case of the squits. So this morning, I’ve taken a couple of Imodium and had a little pray. So far, and I’m on my way home just past Reading, it’s worked. Only a fool would experiment with dropping some of the preventative measures next time in the interest of ‘science’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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