Genie Posted Friday at 11:12 Share Posted Friday at 11:12 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BOF said: I'm not sure really. I don't care that City have titles. Even better if we can put an asterisk beside them. But I do care very much about Liverpool having titles. So for me the lesser is City keeping them. Liverpool would have the most points of the clubs that didn’t cheat, I’m ok with them having the titles. I prefer that to City have the titles but an open acceptance that they did cheat. Edited Friday at 11:15 by Genie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted Friday at 11:14 Share Posted Friday at 11:14 Personally, don't really care about the titles being retrospectively stripped. They need a decent punishment, though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted Friday at 11:19 Share Posted Friday at 11:19 If they were stripped of the titles they've 'won'. United would have 3 more. 12,18,21. Liverpool would have 3 more. 14,19,22. Arsenal would have 2 more. 23,24. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted Friday at 11:29 Share Posted Friday at 11:29 10 minutes ago, Avfc96 said: If they were stripped of the titles they've 'won'. United would have 3 more. 12,18,21. Liverpool would have 3 more. 14,19,22. Arsenal would have 2 more. 23,24. I have no issues with this, even if it meant sha got a title out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted Friday at 11:35 Share Posted Friday at 11:35 It would also mean that Solskjaer would be a Premier League title winning manager which is hilarious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mic09 Posted Friday at 11:39 Popular Post Share Posted Friday at 11:39 19 minutes ago, Avfc96 said: If they were stripped of the titles they've 'won'. United would have 3 more. 12,18,21. Liverpool would have 3 more. 14,19,22. Arsenal would have 2 more. 23,24. It never works like that, I never understand why people make such an argument. If Man City didn't cheat it's not that obvious Utd or Plop would have won the league. It might be that a poorer City that lost to Crystal Palace would have given Crystal Palace confidence to beat Liverpool the next week. Or maybe a poorer City would have injured Odegaard in September 2022. No one know what would happen. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted Friday at 11:44 Share Posted Friday at 11:44 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Mic09 said: It never works like that, I never understand why people make such an argument. If Man City didn't cheat it's not that obvious Utd or Plop would have won the league. It might be that a poorer City that lost to Crystal Palace would have given Crystal Palace confidence to beat Liverpool the next week. Or maybe a poorer City would have injured Odegaard in September 2022. No one know what would happen. I was just pointing out what may happen if they were stripped. But the closest thing I can recall to this, was the Calciopoli scandal in Serie A. Juventus 'won' the title in 05-06, but were stripped of it and Inter, who initially finished 15 points behind Juve, were awarded the title as AC Milan who had finished 2nd, were docked 30 points. Edited Friday at 11:50 by Avfc96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted Friday at 11:45 Share Posted Friday at 11:45 5 minutes ago, Mic09 said: It never works like that, I never understand why people make such an argument. If Man City didn't cheat it's not that obvious Utd or Plop would have won the league. It might be that a poorer City that lost to Crystal Palace would have given Crystal Palace confidence to beat Liverpool the next week. Or maybe a poorer City would have injured Odegaard in September 2022. No one know what would happen. Whilst you never know how the title would have turned out in retrospect it’s the only option. In the Olympics if the gold medal person was stripped of the win they give the gold to the person who finished second. Same in F1 also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted Friday at 11:47 Share Posted Friday at 11:47 Assuming that they’re found ‘guilty’ of at least some of the 115 charges, I think a 100 point deduction (effectively relegating them this season) and a 3+ years transfer embargo should suffice, just about. Unsure how I feel about stripping them of past titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted Friday at 12:01 Share Posted Friday at 12:01 No point stripping them of titles. Let those titles stand and forever be associated with cheating, it would be a stain on their legacy. I also don't believe that the premier league 'needs' city anymore. The product is in danger of going stale if city always win, there are no end of other clubs with the money and power equal to city's and they are all playing by the rules (mostly anyway). City can be thrown out of the league and the premier league product remains strong, if not improved by removing the club using cheat codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted Friday at 12:02 VT Supporter Share Posted Friday at 12:02 I would take it if it meant we get the 2020 League Cup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted Friday at 12:07 Share Posted Friday at 12:07 31 minutes ago, Avfc96 said: It would also mean that Solskjaer would be a Premier League title winning manager which is hilarious. And Brendan Rodgers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted Friday at 12:10 Share Posted Friday at 12:10 they wont strip them of titles they need a decision that ends the legal battle, stripping of titles would mean years more of it as it gets kicked up through appeals also they'd have to try and ascertain the level of cheating per year which would be a minefield, the 115 charges don't all relate to every title, some years will be worse than others etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted Friday at 12:11 Share Posted Friday at 12:11 8 minutes ago, S-Platt said: I would take it if it meant we get the 2020 League Cup Would hope if happened we had a ceremony. Greats like Nyland, Nakamba, Samatta, Engels entering the Villa history books 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted Friday at 12:19 Share Posted Friday at 12:19 15 minutes ago, S-Platt said: I would take it if it meant we get the 2020 League Cup That for me would make it worse. We wouldn’t have had the chance to celebrate, the play off final win was such a good day. The 2020 final defeat was horrible, it wouldn’t be a win for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted Friday at 12:51 Share Posted Friday at 12:51 1 hour ago, Genie said: Whilst you never know how the title would have turned out in retrospect it’s the only option. In the Olympics if the gold medal person was stripped of the win they give the gold to the person who finished second. Same in F1 also. The Olympics - especially an event like track - is very different though. While one runner might cause some marginal impact on others, it's basically true that each runner is running their own race and that whoever finishes second can be considered the 'legitimate' winner if the first-placed finisher is disqualified. A Premier League season is not one event, like a 100m final, but 760 events. You might quickly be faced with difficult decisions; do you consider City just to have disappeared from the final table, but all their results stand, or do you remove their results and recalculate? You could have a situation where eg the second placed team finished 2 points ahead of the third, and took 3 points off City while the third placed team lost both matchups against them. Who is the real second-placed finisher? It's also not 'the only option'; the other option is simply not to declare a winner for that season. And to be honest, if they do decide to remove titles - and I don't expect them to do that - then that would be the approach I would expect them to take, rather than wading into a minefield of altered history books. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamdog Posted Friday at 13:11 Share Posted Friday at 13:11 2 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Would they be retrospectively handed to teams finishing below them? Can’t really see how stripping them of titles would make any difference personally. They’ll get a fine and suspended sentence and laugh at us all. Ask Lance Armstrong if stripping him of his Tour de France victories made a difference to his legacy. They'd never live it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted Friday at 13:18 Share Posted Friday at 13:18 There would be all sorts of contract ramifications on top too you'd image. Bonus payments from sponsors, to players, to management, etc... that have been awarded to City and not to runners up would need to be sorted out. Legal action from all sorts of entities could be brought against City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted Friday at 14:22 Share Posted Friday at 14:22 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Assuming that they’re found ‘guilty’ of at least some of the 115 charges, I think a 100 point deduction (effectively relegating them this season) and a 3+ years transfer embargo should suffice, just about. Unsure how I feel about stripping them of past titles. I don’t think realistically you can, because giving those titles to second play, in some cases second were miles behind anyway lance armstrong was stripped and the record books have “no winner” next to it. Could be dicey doing that. this case for me isn’t just about city vs PL, this is FFP rules vs No FFP rules. if city win despite the evidence showing they’ve cooked the books (from leaked emails etc) then what it means is legally FFP has no standing in terms of being upheld or holding anyone accountable. Everton and notts Forrest could sue the PL for loss of prize money for placed deductions, and essentially owners could do what they liked to fund their clubs again. it’s a massive case and one I hope city lose resoundingly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted Friday at 16:41 Share Posted Friday at 16:41 I think its hard to strip them not just because it's complicated but it makes the Premier League look a farce. Could argue Serie A prestige never really recovered from Calciopoli and this has a lot bigger reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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