fightoffyour Posted August 20 VT Supporter Share Posted August 20 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: yeah definitely, the bed and pillow partner and nigerian orange juice partner were both utd, im sure that above was an official japanese diesel tractor engine partner, said many times before FFP might not have been the brain child of david gill but it was definitely him who championed and sold it, he also just so happened to be an executive at utd who had the highest revenue in global football at the time, its amazing it got voted through i just like how they're getting more weird and wonderful city's milk partner is merely a continuation of football prostituting itself out How much does it cost to be an exclusive orange juice partner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Surprised you can't remember the merch that initially turned Yanited into a commercial juggernaut: Let's see Begiristain match that. I have a signed copy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, fightoffyour said: How much does it cost to be an exclusive orange juice partner? Reported as £2m a year in 2014 Our main shirt deal would have been circa £10m Edit - I think that's also around what our sleeve partner is worth now, so 10 years ago utds Nigerian fruit juice partner paid as much as what trade nation pay to be on our shirt FFP sounds great on paper but the reality is we are never catching these clubs off the field, ever Edited August 20 by villa4europe 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted August 20 VT Supporter Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Reported as £2m a year in 2014 Our main shirt deal would have been circa £10m Edit - I think that's also around what our sleeve partner is worth now, so 10 years ago utds Nigerian fruit juice partner paid as much as what trade nation pay to be on our shirt FFP sounds great on paper but the reality is we are never catching these clubs off the field, ever I mean how much do they have to pay to be the orange juice partner globally, not just in Nigeria? What about all fruit juices in Nigeria, Africa, and worldwide? So many questions, so much pulp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 2 hours ago, Zatman said: I have a signed copy Jealous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 17 hours ago, villa4europe said: FFP sounds great on paper but the reality is we are never catching these clubs off the field, ever That's the whole point of it. PSR, FFP, SCR etc. are all designed to maintain the monopoly "big" clubs like man utd, bayern, Juventus, Madrid, Barcelona have. It's nothing to do with stopping teams going bust or anything sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMelvillan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 23 hours ago, The_Steve said: They now have an official dairy sponsor. The game is utterly broken. Moved on from the Emerati's to the Kurds have they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Ive been debating with other villans and other supports regarding the charges. many of whom to query why their charges are so much worse compared to Chelsea situation with their monetary policy around stadium selling and deals between clubs on selling youth players at questionable prices between clubs to help FFP. Does anyone know why Man City charges are any worse than the financial “doping” other clubs are doing? Is it purely the scale of theirs or is it actually fraudulent activity? and if fraudulent would it not be a criminal investigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, kidlewis said: Does anyone know why Man City charges are any worse than the financial “doping” other clubs are doing? Is it purely the scale of theirs or is it actually fraudulent activity? and if fraudulent would it not be a criminal investigation? I think I it's to do with getting exaggerated sponsorship deals with companies that are owned by Qatar and paying employees off the books. So it's rumoured pep and Mancini a d possibly more are paying paid money to businesses they own or accounts they have in Qatar that isn't reflected in man citys accounts. It's likely a lot of their players are getting similar deals. You can be sure nothing they are doing is criminal, it will just be artificial inflation of city's accounts to avoid FFP. I'd say over half what haaland is being paid isn't on the books for example. Edited August 24 by villa89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Yeah city is a bit of everything isnt it? They've cooked the books, they've failed to provide info, they've had mates sponsor them, they've had companies that don't actually exist sponsor them, they've had mates companies that don't actually exist make payments to people (seems to be Mancini in particular) The majority of the charges relate to failing to provide info and failing to co-operate (something like 75 of the 115 charges) which I can't imagine will come with that severe a punishment, it's what that info says that will see the real punishment so the 115 charges is slightly misleading, they've not cheated 115 times, they've cheated say 40 times and refused to disclose it which is chargeable in itself They won't be punished in any meaningful fashion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 20 hours ago, villa89 said: You can be sure nothing they are doing is criminal, it will just be artificial inflation of city's accounts to avoid FFP. I'd say over half what haaland is being paid isn't on the books for example. And that in itself gives them a huge unfair advantage to avoid FFP, where most other clubs are doing their best to stay within the rules. I fear that they will get away with it. If that happens it will be a free for all with every club then copying man 155ys "rule book". The powers that be that are doing the prosecution I.e. the FA or premier league, have to be very very careful that if these charges are proven then the punishment will need to be sufficiently severe to stop man 115y and other clubs from continuing or following a similar path and I don't think they have the power, desire or means to punish them. Therefore because of this I think man 115y will get away with a token fine - however anything they have won and everything they will win, will always be tainted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 57 minutes ago, delboy54 said: And that in itself gives them a huge unfair advantage to avoid FFP, where most other clubs are doing their best to stay within the rules. I fear that they will get away with it. If that happens it will be a free for all with every club then copying man 155ys "rule book". The powers that be that are doing the prosecution I.e. the FA or premier league, have to be very very careful that if these charges are proven then the punishment will need to be sufficiently severe to stop man 115y and other clubs from continuing or following a similar path and I don't think they have the power, desire or means to punish them. Therefore because of this I think man 115y will get away with a token fine - however anything they have won and everything they will win, will always be tainted... I don’t see how they can get away with just a fine. This is being watched by the government. If they show themselves to be unable of regulating themselves then it’ll be done for them via an independent regulator. That and the money negotiation for the lower leagues. It’s a proper acid test for the league and football in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 58 minutes ago, delboy54 said: Therefore because of this I think man 115y will get away with a token fine - however anything they have won and everything they will win, will always be tainted... They will get some punishment more than a fine but it will be reduced on appeal and will probably end up being a 6-10 point deduction with a one window transfer ban. I disagree with the last bit, sports is full of "cheaters" who've won things, via doping, breaking rules, etc. and nobody really cares. The history books have them listed as winners and that's all anyone remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Well since there has been punishment for other teams breaching FFP the die is cast so whatever they do needs to reflect what's already been handed out. What was the punishment handed to teams in Europe? That's what we should be looking at been given to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 39 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I don’t see how they can get away with just a fine. This is being watched by the government. If they show themselves to be unable of regulating themselves then it’ll be done for them via an independent regulator. That and the money negotiation for the lower leagues. It’s a proper acid test for the league and football in general. I know what you're saying but the Abu Dhabi government and the UK government I am sure have several large contracts with loads of jobs at stake. If the punishment looks as if it's going to be severe, I am sure the two governments will be coming to some secret deal to force the FA/premier league authorities to be lenient on man 155y. I think the whole thing stinks to be honest, but it could be bigger than footy with more at stake such as contracts and jobs etc. Not sure how many UK jobs are dependent on UK relationships with Abu Dhabi, but they could always threaten the UK government that they will take any work elsewhere unless they let man 115y off all charges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 25 VT Supporter Share Posted August 25 Referee’s call not applicable for them it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 33 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Referee’s call not applicable for them it seems. It seems the PL don't want to give them nothing else, to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 25 VT Supporter Share Posted August 25 On 24/08/2024 at 10:28, kidlewis said: Ive been debating with other villans and other supports regarding the charges. many of whom to query why their charges are so much worse compared to Chelsea situation with their monetary policy around stadium selling and deals between clubs on selling youth players at questionable prices between clubs to help FFP. Does anyone know why Man City charges are any worse than the financial “doping” other clubs are doing? Is it purely the scale of theirs or is it actually fraudulent activity? and if fraudulent would it not be a criminal investigation? Citeh are alleged to have done actual financial crimes, not just sporting rule breaking (although they'll have done that as well). The cases are essentially hiding payments and misrepresenting revenue - they're alleged to have paid managers and players off the books (i.e. they're alleged to have paid Mancini as a consultant in Abu Dhabi, which essentially means they were pumping his salary in a manner that isn't reported in their accounts; it seems they are alleged to have done similar with players), which essentially means their accounts are bollocks, which is actual fraud territory. This is why the case has taken so long to sort out, it's a huge case, big enough for government to get involved (theres been various meetings between the UK government and Citeh since this kicked off, because it's a diplomatic incident waiting to happen), theres allegations of actual criminality here. It's also why they should get an absolutely catastrophic punishment. And also why they probably wont - it's too big to let them take a punishment thats appropriate. As a result the case is probably more about establishing an 'acceptable' punishment than it is an appropriate one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 hours ago, Chindie said: Citeh are alleged to have done actual financial crimes, not just sporting rule breaking (although they'll have done that as well). The cases are essentially hiding payments and misrepresenting revenue - they're alleged to have paid managers and players off the books (i.e. they're alleged to have paid Mancini as a consultant in Abu Dhabi, which essentially means they were pumping his salary in a manner that isn't reported in their accounts; it seems they are alleged to have done similar with players), which essentially means their accounts are bollocks, which is actual fraud territory. This is why the case has taken so long to sort out, it's a huge case, big enough for government to get involved (theres been various meetings between the UK government and Citeh since this kicked off, because it's a diplomatic incident waiting to happen), theres allegations of actual criminality here. It's also why they should get an absolutely catastrophic punishment. And also why they probably wont - it's too big to let them take a punishment thats appropriate. As a result the case is probably more about establishing an 'acceptable' punishment than it is an appropriate one. Thanks for the reply, so essentially the key difference between the line is us and say Chelsea? Selling stadiums to “ourselves etc” is that is technically within the rules, manipulation and creative accounting etc. not necessarily “fair play” but it’s the done thing in football? then for city it’s potentially further in that it’s cooking the books and potentially law breaking like Breaking Bad? Except instead of drug money it’s sheikh money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 25 VT Supporter Share Posted August 25 7 minutes ago, kidlewis said: Thanks for the reply, so essentially the key difference between the line is us and say Chelsea? Selling stadiums to “ourselves etc” is that is technically within the rules, manipulation and creative accounting etc. not necessarily “fair play” but it’s the done thing in football? then for city it’s potentially further in that it’s cooking the books and potentially law breaking like Breaking Bad? Except instead of drug money it’s sheikh money? Effectively yes. A lot of clubs are doing things to get around the 'sporting rules', things like selling club assets to associated companies. Everyone knows this is a game and it's obviously not what the rules intend, but it's not illegal and it doesn't break the rules (yet). Citeh are alleged to have literally cooked the books, stuff that any business doing it would get done for. In doing so they've almost certainly broken some sporting rules as well. It's also worth noting the scale of it. They're alleged to have been acting outside the law and rules for years. And those years of rule breaking essentially established them as a dominant force in English and arguably global football. They've allegedly broken the law and done very well out of it. They need to be destroyed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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