Scottish Independence

[bickster]

Ah but at least they'll be Scottish people making cuts the Scottish way in the interests of the Scottish people.

[TrentVilla]

It just seems to me that whenever you hear those that are intending to vote yes they are often seeing this as being a vote almost against austerity.

 

I get the sense that they see this as much about being a vote to escape the economic hardship of the years following the credit crunch as it is about an independent Scotland.

 

They seem completely and utterly unaware of the fact that Scotland will have less money not more money as a result of independence, yes they will have more 'freedom' to spend their money as they wish but they will still have less money.

 

It is simply staggering that so many people are seemingly taken in by this and the 'it will be okay' mentality of the yes campaign.

 

I rather suspect if they do vote yes that in years to come many more Scots will celebrate their new found independence by packing their bags and moving to England.

[colhint]

I like what you wrote, one addendum to that though is would they be allowed in. With both main parties here trying to do something with immigration to some degree, and Scotland outside the EU for now. The only way to reduce numbers is reducing  non EU immigration

[bickster]

I rather suspect if they do vote yes that in years to come many more Scots will celebrate their new found independence by packing their bags and moving to England.

After they've strung up the Pied Piper of Linlithgow in a very public palace and left him to rot

[GENTLEMAN]

I rather suspect if they do vote yes that in years to come many more Scots will celebrate their new found independence by packing their bags and moving to England.

 

Of course not, it will be a utopia under King Salmond.

[TrentVilla]

I like what you wrote, one addendum to that though is would they be allowed in. With both main parties here trying to do something with immigration to some degree, and Scotland outside the EU for now. The only way to reduce numbers is reducing  non EU immigration

 

I started to mention that and then decided to leave it because nobody knows what the situation will be post independence with border issues as they will be outside the EU, other than Salmond obviously who says 'it will be fine don't worry'

[B94villa]

If Scotland does get independence, no way in hell will Salmond get a second term. For all the smug condescension and Braveheart gags coming from south of the border, Scottish people aren't stupid and know exactly what the SNP represents. No-one I know is voting for the SNP, they're voting for independence. Salmond et al are useful idiots, nothing more.

There's a real irony in trying to tell Scotland that they should beware electing a neo-liberal chancer when the alternative is staying with a bunch of unelected neo-liberal chancers.

[DanishVillan]

It just seems to me that whenever you hear those that are intending to vote yes they are often seeing this as being a vote almost against austerity.

 

I get the sense that they see this as much about being a vote to escape the economic hardship of the years following the credit crunch as it is about an independent Scotland.

 

They seem completely and utterly unaware of the fact that Scotland will have less money not more money as a result of independence, yes they will have more 'freedom' to spend their money as they wish but they will still have less money.

 

It is simply staggering that so many people are seemingly taken in by this and the 'it will be okay' mentality of the yes campaign.

 

I rather suspect if they do vote yes that in years to come many more Scots will celebrate their new found independence by packing their bags and moving to England.

You focus alot on the economy, imo.

You really think that:

1) Independence will turn Scotland into some sort of failed state?

2) Losing most of the oil and half the NG wont be noticed economically south of the border in those years to come?

[bickster]

You really think that:

1) Independence will turn Scotland into some sort of failed state?

2) Losing most of the oil and half the NG wont be noticed economically south of the border in those years to come?

1) Yes, good-bye EU = good bye subsidies. The SNP want to add extra corporation tax = good-bye companies. No Central Bank, No currency of their own, we're rapidly approaching a failed state right there imo

2) Oil and Gas is about 10% of UK GDP. Population of Scotland is about 9% of UK population. So thats a resounding no

[TrentVilla]

You focus alot on the economy, imo.

You really think that:

1) Independence will turn Scotland into some sort of failed state?

2) Losing most of the oil and half the NG wont be noticed economically south of the border in those years to come?

 

It would seem like a sensible place to focus given that the future of millions of people depend on this vote. However my focus on it was actually a response to the focus of the voters providing the talking head spots in the media, you seem to have missed that bit of my post which was kind of the entire point of it but never mind.

 

In regards your two points.

 

1. A failed state? No not quite but it will be an state with a seriously damaged economy, on the outside of Europe with no timescale for re-entry and no guarantee of a future invitation. It will be an economy with rising costs and tax's, decreased public spending and an economy very heavily dependent upon a natural resource which they don't yet know exactly how much of which they will control, how much of it is left or its future value. There financial model is based upon massively inflated estimations of reserves and completely ignores that the peak of supply was some 5 or 6 years ago. so failed state? No. A state with a lot of financial issues and no big brother of the UK or Europe to help them? Yes

 

2. It as yet remains to be seen how much of the natural resources would pass to Scotland. But even if they were to take the 90-95% some predict the impact on the rest of the UK will be far less than the impact of the move on the financial future of Scotland given that they aren't making any more oil.

[DanishVillan]

2) Oil and Gas is about 10% of UK GDP. Population of Scotland is about 9% of UK population. So thats a resounding no

 

You would become more or less dependent on (dwindling) foreign energy and that would cause a big swing in trade balances.

[lapal_fan]

 

2) Oil and Gas is about 10% of UK GDP. Population of Scotland is about 9% of UK population. So thats a resounding no

 

You would become more or less dependent on (dwindling) foreign energy and that would cause a big swing in trade balances.

 

I work in Energy and trust me, that's not the case.

[DanishVillan]

It would seem like a sensible place to focus given that the future of millions of people depend on this vote. However my focus on it was actually a response to the focus of the voters providing the talking head spots in the media, you seem to have missed that bit of my post which was kind of the entire point of it but never mind.

 

In regards your two points.

 

1. A failed state? No not quite but it will be an state with a seriously damaged economy, on the outside of Europe with no timescale for re-entry and no guarantee of a future invitation. It will be an economy with rising costs and tax's, decreased public spending and an economy very heavily dependent upon a natural resource which they don't yet know exactly how much of which they will control, how much of it is left or its future value. There financial model is based upon massively inflated estimations of reserves and completely ignores that the peak of supply was some 5 or 6 years ago. so failed state? No. A state with a lot of financial issues and no big brother of the UK or Europe to help them? Yes

 

2. It as yet remains to be seen how much of the natural resources would pass to Scotland. But even if they were to take the 90-95% some predict the impact on the rest of the UK will be far less than the impact of the move on the financial future of Scotland given that they aren't making any more oil.

 

Thanks for answering Trent and agree, I missed that point.

Coming from a country with similar population as Scotland I will support them in this, almost per reflex, and I think they will be fine.

Concept of big brother is really scary to most small nations.

[Demitri_C]

ok forget scotland for a minute here as i couldnt care less as i live in london so my interest is in the uk. what cons does this represent for us if scotland leave?

[DanishVillan]

 

 

2) Oil and Gas is about 10% of UK GDP. Population of Scotland is about 9% of UK population. So thats a resounding no

 

You would become more or less dependent on (dwindling) foreign energy and that would cause a big swing in trade balances.

 

I work in Energy and trust me, that's not the case.

 

Ah, but are you willing to bike there?

I don´t know the location of your nuclear plants and wind farms, or what percentage they produce, but I do believe you are already a net importer of fossils?

[bickster]

ok forget scotland for a minute here as i couldnt care less as i live in london so my interest is in the uk. what cons does this represent for us if scotland leave?

Higher priced Tunnocks wafers as we'll impose an import duty on them.

New Border Patrols on Hadrian's Wall to prevent illegal immigration by skirt wearing mean will increase UKBA's budget

They won't take Newcastle as part of the deal

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I predict that very little will change regardless of the vote.

[chrisp65]

ok forget scotland for a minute here as i couldnt care less as i live in london so my interest is in the uk. what cons does this represent for us if scotland leave?

 

No real change, certainly nothing like the banking crisis or the oil crisis or the winter of discontent. Just an opportunity to re-examine how the remaining UK democracy works and fix some problems with it. Not that the opportunity will be taken, because our half of the deal will still be run by Whitehall that likes things just as they are.

 

Statistically, the UK will have less rainfall and more sunshine. Plus we might get to re visit the stupid clocks forward clocks back thing.

 

Scottish plumbers and bar staff might become more prevalent and threaten the dominance of the Polish and Australian versions.

 

You'll be well within your rights not to accept weird Scottish notes in your late night taxi change.

 

Berwick Rangers will become a hot bed of smuggling activity.

 

The Russian navy will probably start sniffing around closer in shore, just out of mischief, just to make Putin look brave and to see what new shade of shiny pink Cameron turns. Although, in all likelihood, the PM won't be Cameron, it'll be somebody more overtly proud of their right wing heritage.

 

 

but best we don't make this about the attributes of any of the leaders, because I'm struggling to pick a winner on that measure

[lapal_fan]

The SAS would turn into a laughing stock because they'd all be nancy's from Yorkshire & London.

 

That's just about the only bad thing

[Ads]

The SAS would turn into a laughing stock because they'd all be nancy's from Yorkshire & London.

 

That's just about the only bad thing

 

 

Meh, they're all Pongos from an obsolete force anyway.