mjmooney Posted September 7, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2014 Salmond? A clear plan? You're avin' a larf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes vote is the vote of the stupid. Kinda hope it wins to watch it all blow up in their faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted September 7, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) I kinda want them to vote yes just to get the popcorn out and see what happens. Will people still cheer for Andy Murray at Wimbledon? It has no impact on my life whatsoever, if they want to **** off, then they can! The only Scot I think I've ever interacted with is troon_villan off here on FIFA clubs. Edited September 7, 2014 by villarule123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes vote is the vote of the stupid. Kinda hope it wins to watch it all blow up in their faces. It's not so much that it's stupid, but that the debate is being conducted on the level of emotion rather than reason. It would be possible to put together a sound plan for how to move from the current arrangement to being an independent small country. It would have been good to see what such a plan looks like, and vote on that basis, because it's also possible to screw it up completely. For many people, the answer to the question "do you want to be an independent country?" would be "well, on what terms?". But we don't get the luxury of an answer to that, before voting. Instead, everything is to be worked out later, with wild assumptions being made on some pretty important questions. We are being asked to vote irrevocably for independence on the basis of a whole set of unknowns. "Pig in a poke" doesn't begin to describe it. Personally, I find that incredibly frustrating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted September 7, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes vote is the vote of the stupid. Kinda hope it wins to watch it all blow up in their faces. It's not so much that it's stupid, but that the debate is being conducted on the level of emotion rather than reason. It would be possible to put together a sound plan for how to move from the current arrangement to being an independent small country. It would have been good to see what such a plan looks like, and vote on that basis, because it's also possible to screw it up completely. For many people, the answer to the question "do you want to be an independent country?" would be "well, on what terms?". But we don't get the luxury of an answer to that, before voting. Instead, everything is to be worked out later, with wild assumptions being made on some pretty important questions. We are being asked to vote irrevocably for independence on the basis of a whole set of unknowns. "Pig in a poke" doesn't begin to describe it. Personally, I find that incredibly frustrating. But why aren't people asking for those questions to be answered before taking the vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 As I've said before, referenda are a thoroughly bad idea, except for relatively trivial issues (e.g. national anthem). For anything serious, complex and consequence-laden, they should be banned. That's a pretty radical position. I'm not sure how many people would support it. Perhaps we should find out, by holding some sort of plebiscite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 As I've said before, referenda are a thoroughly bad idea, except for relatively trivial issues (e.g. national anthem). For anything serious, complex and consequence-laden, they should be banned. That's a pretty radical position. I'm not sure how many people would support it. Perhaps we should find out, by holding some sort of plebiscite? careful, last person calling people plebs had his bike seized by the Met Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Will people still cheer for Andy Murray at Wimbledon? Do the English actualy cheer for this miserable git? Do you think Scots would cheer on Lewis Hamilton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 As I've said before, referenda are a thoroughly bad idea, except for relatively trivial issues (e.g. national anthem). For anything serious, complex and consequence-laden, they should be banned. That's a pretty radical position. I'm not sure how many people would support it. Perhaps we should find out, by holding some sort of plebiscite? careful, last person not calling people plebs had his bike seized by the Met Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes vote is the vote of the stupid. Kinda hope it wins to watch it all blow up in their faces. It's not so much that it's stupid, but that the debate is being conducted on the level of emotion rather than reason. It would be possible to put together a sound plan for how to move from the current arrangement to being an independent small country. It would have been good to see what such a plan looks like, and vote on that basis, because it's also possible to screw it up completely. For many people, the answer to the question "do you want to be an independent country?" would be "well, on what terms?". But we don't get the luxury of an answer to that, before voting. Instead, everything is to be worked out later, with wild assumptions being made on some pretty important questions. We are being asked to vote irrevocably for independence on the basis of a whole set of unknowns. "Pig in a poke" doesn't begin to describe it. Personally, I find that incredibly frustrating. But why aren't people asking for those questions to be answered before taking the vote? Some are, but it's been a fait accompli for some time that the vote will be taken then negotiations will take place. I suppose the reasoning behind it is that if the vote follows the negotiations, it gives an incentive for Westminster to give as little ground as possible so as not to strengthen the case for independence. Though I'm not sure why they would have more incentive to be generous if the vote had already gone against them. Many people think the big questions have been answered, because people tell them so. Looking at the comments in online national newspapers, it's clear there is a lot of confusion about things like the difference between a currency union and shadowing another currency, for example, even after all this time. These are not everyday concepts that people are used to, so maybe that's not too surprising. My disappointment is that some of the debate seems to have been intended to confuse rather than explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes vote is the vote of the stupid. Kinda hope it wins to watch it all blow up in their faces. 100 years since the Ireland left the UK. Do you think we'd want to rejoin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 One of the big questions is Currency Union and the latest YouGov poll has 51% of Scots siding with Salmond that the Lib/Lab/Cons are bluffing and won't stop it in the case of a YES vote. Voting on assumption of bluffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 One of the big questions is Currency Union and the latest YouGov poll has 51% of Scots siding with Salmond that the Lib/Lab/Cons are bluffing and won't stop it in the case of a YES vote. Voting on assumption of bluffing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Free_State#Currency The currency thing is a non-runner tbh. If London really want to be a dick and arbitrarily restrict the currency somehow, against the wishes of the Bank of England, it will cost them billions of pounds. Absolutely no advantages. Ireland basically kept using the pound post-independence, under much less friendly circumstances, and nobody batted an eye-lid. Ecuador uses the USD. Nobody bats an eye-lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 One of the big questions is Currency Union and the latest YouGov poll has 51% of Scots siding with Salmond that the Lib/Lab/Cons are bluffing and won't stop it in the case of a YES vote. Voting on assumption of bluffing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Free_State#Currency The currency thing is a non-runner tbh. If London really want to be a dick and arbitrarily restrict the currency somehow, against the wishes of the Bank of England, it will cost them billions of pounds. Absolutely no advantages. Ireland basically kept using the pound post-independence, under much less friendly circumstances, and nobody batted an eye-lid. Ecuador uses the USD. Nobody bats an eye-lid. That's not a currency union though. They can keep using UK pounds and trade for them etc but it will be a foreign currency. They won't have any control over interest rates set by the bank of England or have the option of a lender of last resort like they would if the UK agreed a union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 One of the big questions is Currency Union and the latest YouGov poll has 51% of Scots siding with Salmond that the Lib/Lab/Cons are bluffing and won't stop it in the case of a YES vote. Voting on assumption of bluffing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Free_State#Currency The currency thing is a non-runner tbh. If London really want to be a dick and arbitrarily restrict the currency somehow, against the wishes of the Bank of England, it will cost them billions of pounds. Absolutely no advantages. Ireland basically kept using the pound post-independence, under much less friendly circumstances, and nobody batted an eye-lid. Ecuador uses the USD. Nobody bats an eye-lid. That's not a currency union though. They can keep using UK pounds and trade for them etc but it will be a foreign currency. They won't have any control over interest rates set by the bank of England or have the option of a lender of last resort like they would if the UK agreed a union. Aye, yeah, but the distinction between formal currency union versus informal currency union isn't that big imho. No control over interest rates, yes, but part of the argument for a currency union is that their business cycles are nearly identical, so monetary policy would be close to identical anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Will people still cheer for Andy Murray at Wimbledon?Do the English actualy cheer for this miserable git? Do you think Scots would cheer on Lewis Hamilton?I cheer on Andy Murray. I don't think he's a 'miserable git'.I don't cheer on Lewis Hamilton.I'm English (mostly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I kinda want them to vote yes just to get the popcorn out and see what happens. Will people still cheer for Andy Murray at Wimbledon? It has no impact on my life whatsoever, if they want to **** off, then they can! The only Scot I think I've ever interacted with is troon_villan off here on FIFA clubs. You need to broaden your horizons Jono! [emoji23] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I think we're overlooking the real issue here... Will the British and Irish Lions have to be renamed the British, Irish and Scottish Lions... or will we just not bother picking a token Scottish player anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Britain is an island. Scotland will remain in Britain. Aside: the "Great" in GB comes from the fact that it's bigger than Brittany, and nothing more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Britain is an island. Scotland will remain in Britain. Aside: the "Great" in GB comes from the fact that it's bigger than Brittany, and nothing more Doesn't matter, the team was called The British Lions before Ireland got all fussy and pretentious about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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