drat01 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 As we see on this thread with the vt Tory / ukip supporters making so many comments, there seems to be a push from that side of the uk political spectrum to try and personalise the whole leadership thing rather than question the policies of the respective parties. We all know that Cameron has failed on so many levels, from his inability to win an election despite the many millions of tax avoidance donations through to his failure to get even the basics right. As tony rightly says ish the uk has not had radical change for a while the biggest - and worst - was the selfish greed driven society of thatcher. Regarding milliband he has strong principles but is he a great leader ? Probably not, but compared to cuckold clegg and Cameron then the traits what political should be judged against he wins hands down The next couple of months are key for all parties especially Cameron with ukip stealing his mps and the debacle over the eu , you just have to wonder of how much scrutiny of milliband is a deflection from the real issues surrounding a weak ineffectual pm presumably yourself and Ajax wont be using the "Ahhh but " and "deflection " argument in the other thread any longer .... rumours of another pact today between the wannabe leaders .. of course the last pact between would be Labour leaders worked well Don't play that one Tony because we all know that if you were asked what is 2+2 your answer would be "Ah, but Labour...", it's like your trademark. I believe my trademark would involve the French , people in suits , cyclists and teachers way before that one however the point you are missing is that you and Mr D constantly referred to the "Ahh but" and "deflection" in your posts in the Tory thread and yet you've both been guilty of it in the spaces of a few posts ... I'll have to get my Hypocrisy card out for you both soon tony nice try but where you fail was that we were talking about a general subject, ie personality politics that affects all of the leaders as we said. No deflect or anything but 6 out of 10 for trying mate but rather like a villa forward missed your goal :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The only thing he could and should therefore do is to go with "this is what I believe and this is what we'll do" Every time he does, Labour get a poll boost. I don't think it is what he believes though ... he says things his advisor's have told him are populist ..i.e this week an advisor says I heard people down the pub moaning about utility companies so what you need to do is say something that they like , doesn't matter how bonkers it is you'll never implement it but it will boost your popularity in the polls ... and so Ed comes out and says "i'll freeze energy prices " If Ed believed what he was saying , why would he attack tax dodging companies and then sign up with Amazon as a partner for collecting labour donations ... answer is clear ..he says it for the sound-bite but in reality he knows he hasn't got a prayer of getting Amazon to pay full whack Tony - come on here, you make that as if it is just Millband and the Labour party . Is he? I certainly didn't get that from his posts - I think he's just giving his opinion on Miliband and Labour which is what this thread is about after all. oh dear mantis and tony a quick look shows that you have never said anything like that re Cameron - can to show where you have or at least agree that ALL politicians are knee jerk? Your post certainly does read as being one sided view And mantis any chance of sharing your views to what has a chance of being a reasonable chat? there are many posts where I've criticised Cameron you're just not looking hard enough .... top right has a nice little search feature ... go knock yourself out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 As we see on this thread with the vt Tory / ukip supporters making so many comments, there seems to be a push from that side of the uk political spectrum to try and personalise the whole leadership thing rather than question the policies of the respective parties. We all know that Cameron has failed on so many levels, from his inability to win an election despite the many millions of tax avoidance donations through to his failure to get even the basics right. As tony rightly says ish the uk has not had radical change for a while the biggest - and worst - was the selfish greed driven society of thatcher. Regarding milliband he has strong principles but is he a great leader ? Probably not, but compared to cuckold clegg and Cameron then the traits what political should be judged against he wins hands down The next couple of months are key for all parties especially Cameron with ukip stealing his mps and the debacle over the eu , you just have to wonder of how much scrutiny of milliband is a deflection from the real issues surrounding a weak ineffectual pm presumably yourself and Ajax wont be using the "Ahhh but " and "deflection " argument in the other thread any longer .... rumours of another pact today between the wannabe leaders .. of course the last pact between would be Labour leaders worked well Don't play that one Tony because we all know that if you were asked what is 2+2 your answer would be "Ah, but Labour...", it's like your trademark. I believe my trademark would involve the French , people in suits , cyclists and teachers way before that one however the point you are missing is that you and Mr D constantly referred to the "Ahh but" and "deflection" in your posts in the Tory thread and yet you've both been guilty of it in the spaces of a few posts ... I'll have to get my Hypocrisy card out for you both soon Does that mean you're a card carrying hypocrite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I have trademarked all if Tony's traits - next week on dragons den I will present it as the Surrey I haven't got a clue ..... :-) I believe Mrs H29 likes to refer to it as the kitchen rather than dragons den .. PC gone mad I tells you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 As we see on this thread with the vt Tory / ukip supporters making so many comments, there seems to be a push from that side of the uk political spectrum to try and personalise the whole leadership thing rather than question the policies of the respective parties. We all know that Cameron has failed on so many levels, from his inability to win an election despite the many millions of tax avoidance donations through to his failure to get even the basics right. As tony rightly says ish the uk has not had radical change for a while the biggest - and worst - was the selfish greed driven society of thatcher. Regarding milliband he has strong principles but is he a great leader ? Probably not, but compared to cuckold clegg and Cameron then the traits what political should be judged against he wins hands down The next couple of months are key for all parties especially Cameron with ukip stealing his mps and the debacle over the eu , you just have to wonder of how much scrutiny of milliband is a deflection from the real issues surrounding a weak ineffectual pm presumably yourself and Ajax wont be using the "Ahhh but " and "deflection " argument in the other thread any longer .... rumours of another pact today between the wannabe leaders .. of course the last pact between would be Labour leaders worked well Don't play that one Tony because we all know that if you were asked what is 2+2 your answer would be "Ah, but Labour...", it's like your trademark. I believe my trademark would involve the French , people in suits , cyclists and teachers way before that one however the point you are missing is that you and Mr D constantly referred to the "Ahh but" and "deflection" in your posts in the Tory thread and yet you've both been guilty of it in the spaces of a few posts ... I'll have to get my Hypocrisy card out for you both soon Does that mean you're a card carrying hypocrite? it's more of a certificate tbf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It's a shame we would never see a labour-Tory coalition be comedy gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It's a shame we would never see a labour-Tory coalition be comedy gold 1940-1945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 7, 2014 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2014 It's a shame we would never see a labour-Tory coalition be comedy goldIt'd probably be the most truthful alliance in UK politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) It's a shame we would never see a labour-Tory coalition be comedy gold It'd probably be the most truthful alliance in UK politics Naively I wondered after the last General election why the Tories and Labour didn't form a coalition. I concluded that it would sound the end of the class-war which has bedevilled the UK since WW2, and powerful interests just could not allow that. Edited November 7, 2014 by MakemineVanilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Tedious "They're all the same" guff again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 7, 2014 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2014 Tedious "They're all the same" guff again?No, tedious truth that both parties are right of centre neoliberal parties who argue about window dressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yes Bickster, if you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 oh dear mantis and tony a quick look shows that you have never said anything like that re Cameron - can to show where you have or at least agree that ALL politicians are knee jerk? Your post certainly does read as being one sided view And mantis any chance of sharing your views to what has a chance of being a reasonable chat? Could you please point out where we've tried to make out that only Labour and Miliband latch onto populist ideas? I can't speak for Tony but I certainly don't believe that the Conservatives and Cameron are immune from it. Farage and UKIP are probably the worst of the lot for this and I have specifically said this multiple times on here. It's a one-sided view because this thread is specifically about Labour and Miliband. Honestly, what did you expect? Sharing my views on what exactly? I think the current discontent over Miliband's leadership within the Labour party is funny if that's what you mean and long may it continue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Observer running with a story tomorrow about more back benchers asking Ed to stand down So much for it being a Tory press conspiracy .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 #ibackDredd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 No names to these rumoured back benchers though, no real substance to these stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 No names to these rumoured back benchers though, no real substance to these stories. Not sure about specific names, but surely you'd be harder pushed to find people who think he isn't a hopeless mong and any Labour majority would have to be in spite of him. I don't see what they have to lose at all by getting rid, in fact I think it would give them the necessary push to get a comfortable majority, especially if they went for Umunna. I know I'm boiling it purely down to personality but it's not as if this election is likely to be decided either way by political genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 No names to these rumoured back benchers though, no real substance to these stories. Not sure about specific names, but surely you'd be harder pushed to find people who think he isn't a hopeless mong and any Labour majority would have to be in spite of him. I don't see what they have to lose at all by getting rid, in fact I think it would give them the necessary push to get a comfortable majority, especially if they went for Umunna. I know I'm boiling it purely down to personality but it's not as if this election is likely to be decided either way by political genius. The Daily Mail's enthusiasm for a coup against Ed seems to suggest that they see some political advantage in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 No names to these rumoured back benchers though, no real substance to these stories. Not sure about specific names, but surely you'd be harder pushed to find people who think he isn't a hopeless mong and any Labour majority would have to be in spite of him. I don't see what they have to lose at all by getting rid, in fact I think it would give them the necessary push to get a comfortable majority, especially if they went for Umunna. I know I'm boiling it purely down to personality but it's not as if this election is likely to be decided either way by political genius. A 'hopeless mong'... based on what? His policies which seem to be highly approved of? Labour membership being up? The support he's receiving across social media? Winning council and by elections? Or are you basing that on a poorly timed picture of him eating a sandwich or whatever ridiculous, meaningless thing the media hammer him for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Are you sure Labour membership is up? According to the House of Commons Library documents, Its been at its lowest level since 1928, save for one blip after Blair. Then remained at that level ever since. I'm not sure how to link it as its a download doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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