Stevo985 Posted December 4, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2012 He is a good manager. But that's all. Not great or even very good. Just good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2012 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I like MON, always have done. Thought he was brilliant for us and dont blame him for the manner in which he left either. In football things sometimes work and sometimes dont. Like Collymore coming here I thought that would make us and him. Wasnt to be MON at Sunderland is that for me. I thought he would do well there, he may still. But at the moment it just isnt working for some reason, something is not right there and as sad as I am to say this (as I still like the man) as long as he stays there the better it is for us it seems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 How anyone can 'like' Martin O'Neill is beyond me, a vile sly nasty man of the highest order. But i suppose you'll never find a successful manager who is a nice bloke either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 4, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2012 I still like O'Neill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Have you read what I posted? I said what his strengths were. Kind of. You glossed over them anyway. He is, or was, an astonishingly good motivator, in my opinion one of the best in the game. How he gets what he does out of some of the dross he has a penchant for purchasing will always escape my knowledge. Players will crawl over hot coals for him. Many fans would as well. Having said that, he looks spent. It's sad to see. I know not many will agree with me there and I do understand why, I'm not oblivious. Personally I still wish him all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2012 My take on O'Neill is that when he arrives at a club he gives players a lift, he gets under their skin and he gets them playing better than they were and in some cases better than they have ever done. As a motivator few are better. As I said, as a motivator few are better. But that is about it. I don't wish him well because I've no fondness for him, I never much liked him as an individual and the way he left burnt any respect I had for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How anyone can 'like' Martin O'Neill is beyond me, a vile sly nasty man of the highest order. But i suppose you'll never find a successful manager who is a nice bloke either... I like him. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I don't mind him, as long as he continues to suck Sunderland into the relegation zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 As I said, as a motivator few are better. But that is about it. I don't wish him well because I've no fondness for him, I never much liked him as an individual and the way he left burnt any respect I had for him. I still have no idea how or why he left. The only person that ever hinted at a reason was The General, hardly a bastion of plain honesty. If rumours are true he wanted to quit much sooner, following the Chelsea defeat and wasn't "allowed". I'm covering old ground that doesn't need to be covered and I know my argument will fall on deaf ears. I also know we spent a pretty penny chasing the dream. We failed, but we survived. It was a fun ride. I'll never let the financial aspect of football cloud my love for the game, or the joy it gave during that period and that it continues to give now despite the misgivings of the many. I am however intrigued as to why you didn't/don't care for him as a person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 for me his persona has always come across as a bitter, vindictive, twisted man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 5, 2012 I am however intrigued as to why you didn't/don't care for him as a person? Well personally I was always intrigued to know why people did like him. Prior to his arrival here I always admired his achievements but disliked him and what I considered his overly abrasive attitude. When interviewed he was frequently patronising, dismissive and spiky with those asking him perfectly reasonable questions. I could see why people found him amusing, I could see why people admired his achievements, but like? No he never came across as being particularly likeable to me. I'm sure he is probably a nice guy, he seems genuinely popular within the game. Personally though he just isn't my cup of tea, I don't dislike him in the same way I dislike some other managers but then I don't like in him in the way I like other managers. In his time here I warmed to him to a degree but always found him arrogant, passive aggressive and incapable of ever admitting his mistakes. His attitude post Moscow particularly stuck in my throat. So for these reasons and many others I never held O'Neill in the same regard as I had other managers in the past such as Taylor, Little, Big Ron or even Gregory for a while. Perhaps that is an age thing and growing up, you stop seeing the job they are doing and start seeing the man more I don't know. I just never much liked O'Neill and while I warmed to him during the early years of his time here, my opinion on him was soured again long before his departure which I will admit was the final nail. I largely agree with Zatman, I find him a little vindictive and often quite rude when interviewed. I don't want to get into a debate on this and I don't expect you to change your view of him neither will I change my view on him. I just wanted to give you some sort of answer to your question. Anyway... lets hope their poor run continues because their fate could well be caught up with our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 5, 2012 I think he's a likeable person. I just dislike him for how he left us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well personally I was always intrigued to know why people did like him. Prior to his arrival here I always admired his achievements but disliked him and what I considered his overly abrasive attitude. When interviewed he was frequently patronising, dismissive and spiky with those asking him perfectly reasonable questions. I could see why people found him amusing, I could see why people admired his achievements, but like? No he never came across as being particularly likeable to me. I'm sure he is probably a nice guy, he seems genuinely popular within the game. Personally though he just isn't my cup of tea, I don't dislike him in the same way I dislike some other managers but then I don't like in him in the way I like other managers. In his time here I warmed to him to a degree but always found him arrogant, passive aggressive and incapable of ever admitting his mistakes. His attitude post Moscow particularly stuck in my throat. So for these reasons and many others I never held O'Neill in the same regard as I had other managers in the past such as Taylor, Little, Big Ron or even Gregory for a while. Perhaps that is an age thing and growing up, you stop seeing the job they are doing and start seeing the man more I don't know. I just never much liked O'Neill and while I warmed to him during the early years of his time here, my opinion on him was soured again long before his departure which I will admit was the final nail. I largely agree with Zatman, I find him a little vindictive and often quite rude when interviewed. I don't want to get into a debate on this and I don't expect you to change your view of him neither will I change my view on him. I just wanted to give you some sort of answer to your question. Anyway... lets hope their poor run continues because their fate could well be caught up with our own. No debate necessary, I respect your opinion. I'm not sure age comes into it, I'm 29 years old after all. I think taste does though. I'm a big fan of the "us against them" philosophy, especially with regards to the press. As you say, he is well liked within the game and in those rare "laid bare" interviews he occasionally gave I don't see how he could come across as anything but likeable. I suppose I accepted fairly on that no matter what he said it was ALWAYS with the best interest of the club in mind regardless of who fell victim. I appreciated that. You could say I found him very motivating.... He's marmite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Couldnt decide whether to put this into the MON thread or the YouTube thread. Figured it would find a more appreciative audience here. http://youtu.be/BThBUg3R-Mk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 5, 2012 I've got it on mute and I still laughed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted December 5, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted December 5, 2012 Kind of. You glossed over them anyway. He is, or was, an astonishingly good motivator, in my opinion one of the best in the game. How he gets what he does out of some of the dross he has a penchant for purchasing will always escape my knowledge. Players will crawl over hot coals for him. Many fans would as well. Having said that, he looks spent. It's sad to see. I know not many will agree with me there and I do understand why, I'm not oblivious. Personally I still wish him all the best. I'd go along with this. He is undoubtedly an unbelievable motivator and over many years has made average players perform above their natural level. He recently seems, mainly due to his time with us, have been labelled a cheque book manger which is unjust in my opinion. What he did whilst at Leicester on a shoe string budget is nothing short of remarkable. In 5 seasons he got them promoted, they never finished outside the top 10 in four seasons under him in the Premier League, they won the league cup twice and finished runners up once. With a club like Leicester that was an unbelievable run. In some ways having money to spend hasn't done him any favours. I think he could have achieved what he did with us on much less. Bottom line for me is though given what he spent with us - net 70 odd mill over 4 years and having the 8th, 6th and 6th highest wage bill during our three sixth place finishes was a reasonable return and no more or less than what was expected. More than the above though was the hope we had under him for a time. When he arrived he was like a breath of fresh air and it was like the club had been reborn after years in the doldrums. He spoke with conviction and passion, embraced the club and we could all dream for a while of what may be. I can remember being in Villa Park at the last game of the season in 2007 against Sheff Utd. The place was packed to the rafters, the atmosphere was electric ( helped by the return of the Euro Cup winners ) and I can remember a shiver going down my spine as the players emerged from the tunnel. It was as if we were back. All this at a time we were abut to finish 11th but O'Neill made you believe we could go places. What followed was fun whilst it lasted and many of us went along and enjoyed the ride. Average crowds of over 40k in 07/08 for the first time in over 50 years and crowds the likes of which we hadn't seen in a similar time frame in the two following seasons. Biggest stand out game for me and possibly the highest point under him was at Ewood Park in Feb 2009. There must have been 7000 of us there and we won 2-0 and were third in the table. I can remember as I was leaving the ground my best mate texting me, who is a Liverpool fan, and saying never mind top 4 I can see you winning the league and I thought yes, yes we can. I hadn't had that feeling for the best part of 20 years and it seems am unlikely to have it again. If for nothing else I thank O'Neill for that. For giving me them times like at VP against Sheff Utd in 2007 and at Ewood Park in 2009 when I had hope and a feeling we were on the verge of something special. It never quite came to fruition but it was fun and felt great whilst it lasted and a part of me will always be grateful to O'Neill for that. As for O'Neill now he has certainly lost some of his spark and I genuinely believe when he left us a part of him died and he lost some of his desire. Like most ex Villa managers they find that Aston Villa is a hard act to follow. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 At his limit he's a top 6 manager at best. He's one of the most overrated managers in modern history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 5, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 5, 2012 When he came to us, everyone was saying that it was just a holding operation till Fergie retired and he took up his manifest destiny as Man Utd manager. Seems a long time ago now, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I've heard the "he brought the belief back" argument a lot in support of O'Neill but a lot of that belief wasn't really down to him but the circumstances he was working in. Following on from DOL and more importantly Ellis' reign of terror (which lasted for a quarter of a century) meant that there would always be a real sense of optimism and hope. Randy bankrolled our quest for the top 4 with a lot of money so naturally we did improve. But the football was never that great and we never actually achieved anything major. O'Neill did no better than Gregory in the Villa job and was bested by Atkinson and Little. Even O'Leary managed to get 6th once (I'm not saying DOL was better though). You've also got to look at the legacy he left behind - some very good players in there but mostly old and mediocre ones who were on ridiculous wages. Apart from the obvious three anomalies we've lost out big time on almost every one of his purchases. We're only just now getting over this mess and while Houllier and McLeish obviously must shoulder a lot of the blame so must O'Neill. The O'Neill empire (if you can call it that) was built on sand. Massively overrated manager and he's now being found out at Sunderland. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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