TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2011 I've just read the entire thread ... Busy morning Ash? :winkold: Quiet morning at Hogwarts. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I forgot to mention that in heaven you can also go hiking, or pony trekking, or just stay home and watch TV if you prefer. Wait... they have pony trekking? Really??!! I am SO going to church right now. Yes and table tennis as well. If you let me know some of your other interests, I'll be more than happy to let you know whether you're provided for in heaven. Saying that, you should be okay, they have over 12,000 different things to do, and also loads of board games as well, probably every board game ever invented, except maybe for a few Limited Edition Collector's Item games, not sure if they bother with those or not. Will i be able to sail on the mayonnaise sea all day while watching fetish porn? Because i can't imagine heaven any other wayYou will, my son, you will. God loves a bit o' grumble. I'm concerned about band width though, do they have broadband as I've heard they are still on dial up?My child, that is simply a rumour spread by the instruments of Satan. In heaven the broadband is super-fast, like 47 Mbps, it is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoD Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I forgot to mention that in heaven you can also go hiking, or pony trekking, or just stay home and watch TV if you prefer. Wait... they have pony trekking? Really??!! I am SO going to church right now. Yes and table tennis as well. If you let me know some of your other interests, I'll be more than happy to let you know whether you're provided for in heaven. Saying that, you should be okay, they have over 12,000 different things to do, and also loads of board games as well, probably every board game ever invented, except maybe for a few Limited Edition Collector's Item games, not sure if they bother with those or not. Will i be able to sail on the mayonnaise sea all day while watching fetish porn? Because i can't imagine heaven any other wayYou will, my son, you will. God loves a bit o' grumble. I'm concerned about band width though, do they have broadband as I've heard they are still on dial up? I was stuck on 512kb/s a few days ago and that was terrible if its only dial up in heaven i may need to ask for the real thing to happen in front of me instead of a computer screen and no one wants that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 9, 2011 Administrator Share Posted November 9, 2011 Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. The word "consequently" surely shows that the Nephilim were a bad influence on mankind and the Flood destroyed both them and wicked men who had "ruined the Earth" in the sight of God. God, who is out of time and therefore would have no concept of consequence was always aware of this and everything else simultaneously. So either he was not out of time or he knew his creation was always wicked even before he created it. Which is the lie? Or is this another translation error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I forgot to mention that in heaven you can also go hiking, or pony trekking, or just stay home and watch TV if you prefer. Wait... they have pony trekking? Really??!! I am SO going to church right now. Yes and table tennis as well. If you let me know some of your other interests, I'll be more than happy to let you know whether you're provided for in heaven. Saying that, you should be okay, they have over 12,000 different things to do, and also loads of board games as well, probably every board game ever invented, except maybe for a few Limited Edition Collector's Item games, not sure if they bother with those or not. Will i be able to sail on the mayonnaise sea all day while watching fetish porn? Because i can't imagine heaven any other way You will, my son, you will. God loves a bit o' grumble. I'm concerned about band width though, do they have broadband as I've heard they are still on dial up? My child, that is simply a rumour spread by the instruments of Satan. In heaven the broadband is super-fast, like 47 Mbps, it is written. I'd harbour a guess that Julie doesn't quite understand the connection between Internet bandwidths and heaven. I on the other hand find it hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted November 9, 2011 Administrator Share Posted November 9, 2011 I know it'll be hard to find cut and paste responses, because I'm employing the same stupid techniques used by the bible worshippers but will anyone try? As god is outside of time, god would also already know everything that had happened, was happening and would ever happen. So god made Adam in god's image knowing that image was already a liar. that can only prove that god was also a liar. Therefore the bible is the work of a liar. Which tenet is incorrect? In a kiddie sense, I see 2 great minds playing chess..God(on our side) v Evil.. God creates was the 1st move. Evil destroys was the 2nd move. God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move. Evil ? God (as you've stated) is outside of time. How did something happen to god first, second or third. He knew all the moves on the chess board before they happened. There is no sequence nor causality when you are outside of time, everything happens at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 You're just making things up as you go and making yourself look even more stupid. First you say there was no letter. then there only one letter in 1934. Now you agree that there was one in 1933, which was this: What about all the quotes I have provided by sources nothing to do with the Watchtower clearly evidencing that Jehovah's Witnesses stood up to the Nazis? I notice you gloss over those as if they didn't exist you are in such a frenzy to whip up accusations that actually have no basis that German JWs were collaborators with Hitler!! I'll ask you again Julie, which part of the letter that Rutherford wrote to Hitler in 1933 denounced him as you clearly state was the case. I've helpfully posted the letter for you. Which part of it denounces Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Also Risso if any Jews were unhappy with Jehovah's Witnesses and their supposed collaboration with the Nazis one would think that the Jews would be up in arms... instead all of the Jews in the Concentration Camps remember the Purple Triangles... For instance....the Museum of Jewish Heritage in New York contains the following:- A Living Faith Amid Tragedy NEARLY 60 years ago, Mina Esch received a postcard from her husband, Peter. The handwritten message was brief and vague. Nevertheless, she was happy and relieved to receive it. Mina’s husband was a prisoner in the Buchenwald concentration camp, sent there by the Nazi government for being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The back of the postcard bore the terse statement: “The prisoner remains a stubborn Bible Student [as Jehovah’s Witnesses were then known] . . . For this reason only, the privilege of otherwise permissible correspondence is taken from him.” This message told Mina that Peter was holding true to his faith. The postcard, now fragile and yellowed, is on loan to the Museum of Jewish Heritage—A Living Memorial to the Holocaust, located in Battery Park, New York City. Along with a photograph of Peter Esch, the postcard shares in telling a small part of an enormous human tragedy—the Holocaust—during which six million Jews perished. The museum’s core exhibit contains more than 2,000 photographs and 800 historical and cultural artifacts that depict the experiences of the Jewish community from the 1880’s to the present, including the Holocaust. Why is the Museum of Jewish Heritage a fitting place to display Peter Esch’s letter? “The mandate of the museum is to represent Jewish history,” explained museum historian Dr. Jud Newborn. “Jehovah’s Witnesses were persecuted for who they were. The Witnesses were persecuted wholly for their religious beliefs and because they did not believe in racism, in swearing allegiance to an evil, worldly dictator. And they didn’t believe in fighting his war. . . . Jews struggled to maintain their values and their faith against tremendous opposition. The museum celebrates such spiritual resistance. For that reason, this institution also acknowledges and admires the faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses during the Nazi era.” In its temporary home at the Museum of Jewish Heritage, a simple letter depicts the struggle of one man whose loyalty to Jehovah was put to the test. Peter Esch survived his ordeal in the Nazi camp, his faith intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'll ask you again Julie, which part of the letter that Rutherford wrote to Hitler in 1933 denounced him as you clearly state was the case. I've helpfully posted the letter for you. Which part of it denounces Hitler? I'll tell you again... Rutherford didn't write the letter to Hitler in 1933. It came from the branch office in Germany.. see my full response from earlier this morning at 8.04am The letter that Rutherford wrote to Hitler wasn't sent until 1934. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'd harbour a guess that Julie doesn't quite understand the connection between Internet bandwidths and heaven. I on the other hand find it hilarious Very Happy Sorry I haven't been keeping up with all the posts in this thread. I've just tended to deal with specifics aimed at me and a few others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 God, who is out of time and therefore would have no concept of consequence was always aware of this and everything else simultaneously. So either he was not out of time or he knew his creation was always wicked even before he created it. Which is the lie? Or is this another translation error? No not at all. God can choose to intervene but he gave his Creation free will neither the Angels or mankind were created as robots...The Bible teaches very much that their will be consequences for evil actions. We all have a God given choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'll tell you again... Rutherford didn't write the letter to Hitler in 1933. It came from the branch office in Germany.. see my full response from earlier this morning. Lies. Rutherford was a racist, and that letter was an attempt to ingratiate himself with Hitler. Rutherford was a racist Jew-hater, quotes from him include: "It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations... This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York... the Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills…" "the hooked nosed, stooped-shouldered little individual who stands on the street corner trying to gyp you out of every nickel you got" "Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world, will never be the rulers of this new earth. God would not risk such selfish men with such an important position" Rutherford clearly wanted to align himself with the Nazis. Unfortunately for him though, and more importantly the members of his cult, Hitler viewed him in the same way he did the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well.... if Noah and his boat were real I'm not sure the Nazi's or Mr Rutherford would have been getting an invite. I'm really not sure what Noah was thinking letting the spiders on either. Idiot. To his credit though Noah must have been shit hot at looking after his pets to stop the lions eating everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Rutherford was a racist, and that letter was an attempt to ingratiate himself with Hitler. Rutherford was a racist Jew-hater, quotes from him include: Oh right then so suddenly Rutherford moved to Germany did he? The letter you posted was clearly signed from the Watchtower Branch Office in Germany. Rutherford's letter in 1934 states the complete opposite. You really are scraping the barrel trying to twist matters. In 1933 Hitler had not carried out any atrocities against the Jews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Luke 20: 34 - 36 is talking about the proper position of Angels that they were unable to marry and have sex. Just like any of mankind who are resurrected to serve in the Heavans with Jesus. These were "Children of God" as opposed to Demons who were no longer part of Jehovah's heavenly organisation. There is no inconsistency with other scriptures at all. It backs up entirely what Jude states These “sons of the true God” were angels from heaven who materialized as humans and roamed the earth as men. They had not come at God’s direction; nor had they come to benefit the human family. Instead, they “forsook their own proper dwelling place” in heaven to have sexual relations with the beautiful women on earth. They became demons. Jude specifically mentions the Angels having sex before the Flood.... Jude 6: 6,7 And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day. 7 So too Sod′om and Go‧mor′rah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before [us] as a [warning] example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. In other words once these "foregoing ones" the Angels had materialised and made themselves Demons by forsaking their spiritual bodies and materialising and "gone after flesh for unnatural use"......... thereon at the Flood these Angels were stopped from materialising as physical beings and imprisoned in their spiritual bodies as he states they were "reserved in eternal bonds"... ie restricted. (2 Peter 2:4-5) . . .Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar′ta‧rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment; 5 and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people. . . Peter talks about the Spirits being in Prison further... and Jesus having power over them. (1 Peter 3:18-20) . ."Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water" After the Flood it therefore became impossible for these Angels to have sex with women because they were stopped from doing so.... The remaining Angels who are faithful to Jehovan are spoken about as "Children of God" and included with those of mankind who are reseurrected. They don't have sex because they are spiritual beings who have no desire to materialise and become human. Which is exactly what Luke 20 34-36 is stating. If you like this all contrasts the difference between faithful Angels and the ones who threw their lot in with Satan. Though evidently restrained from materializing, they still have great power and influence over the minds and lives of men, even having the ability to enter into and possess humans and animals, and the Scriptures show that they also use inanimate things such as houses, fetishes, and charms.—Mt 12:43-45; Lu 8:27-33 In fact Satan offered Jesus while he was on Earth... ALL the Kingdoms of the World if he would do one act of worship to him. How could he offer Jesus something that he didn't have influence over? That shows the great power that the demons and Satan have over the Earth and why there is so much evil in the World. In Noah's time it was just as bad because demons had materialised and their offspring stalked the Earth.. the Nephilim from the Hebrew verb Naphal to fall or literally Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down. Does that explain it? Reverting to your old trick of cutting and pasting from JW sites, not quoting or crediting it, and passing it off as your own thoughts I see. Have you ever had a single original thought of your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Reverting to your old trick of cutting and pasting from JW sites, not quoting or crediting it, and passing it off as your own thoughts I see. Have you ever had a single original thought of your own? What a stupid comment. Wrong again.... Only the Scriptures were copied and pasted the commentary is ALL my own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbaughan Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I think I would prefer to go to hell. That’s where the interesting people are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 9, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 9, 2011 To answer the original question..."No" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 do JW's not believe in the new testament but the old one only? so they don't believe Jesus existed (which he did as a person) but believe a guy who was about 500 years old built a boat the size of the titanic out of wood and gathered up all the species of the world and proceeded to smash his wife to help bring the population back from 2 to thousands? Where the heck do you get this from. ALL JWs beleive in Jesus as the Son of God and both the Hebrew and Greek/Aramaic scriptures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Rutherford was a racist, and that letter was an attempt to ingratiate himself with Hitler. Rutherford was a racist Jew-hater, quotes from him include: Oh right then so suddenly Rutherford moved to Germany did he? The letter you posted was clearly signed from the Watchtower Branch Office in Germany. It was written by Rutherford. The Watch Tower's defence of it is that was "badly translated" from English into German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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